009 - Travel Rewards

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Time Speaker Text Tags
0 - 3 Jonathan Mendonsa OK so welcome Brad. Back in the studio again today.
3 - 5 Brad Barrett Hey Jonathan. Very excited to be here as always.
5 - 32 Jonathan Mendonsa So it's yeah this is going to be a lot of fun so this is an episode that we've been teasing for a while it's one we've been very excited about and that is the world of travel hacking and I am very fortunate to be doing this Brad because he is really an expert in the space and has been doing it for a long time has built several businesses around this model and has been sharing this information with what is hundreds of thousands of people at least thousands.
32 - 34 Brad Barrett Yeah. I mean certainly tens of thousands tens of thousands.
34 - 96 Jonathan Mendonsa So I wanted to start off just by telling you a little bit of a story and how travel hacking has improved my life in the hopes that it might give you some ideas about how it might help yours. So my wife is from Zimbabwe and she lives with me in the United States and there's some implications for that because her family is still overseas. It is important to us that we go visit them on a regular basis because she's living here but we don't want it to be a situation where we never get to see them or we only see them when they come to us because we're living on a budget. So from the start Danny and I decided that we were going to set aside a certain amount of money every single year to go visit them. And these tickets to Zimbabwe are incredibly expensive running anywhere from 2500 upwards of $3000 and that's for an economy seat. And so that's for one ticket roundtrip and we would need two of those. So we this is not something that we can do every year we would typically set out to save $3000 a year and every two years we would take a trip back home to visit her family.
families, familytravel, travelrewards
96 - 108 Brad Barrett Right so we're talking $6000 which is probably more money than most people save in a lifetime literally. And that's every two years you're dropping on plane tickets so just to paint the picture here. That's huge dollars.
108 - 143 Jonathan Mendonsa And this was my plan. I was I was saddled with this plan. I wasn't excited about it but I was very grateful that she married me I definitely married up. And that was going to be what we were going to do. And when you're paying for a trip like this these are obviously with post-tax dollars. So in order to save six grand you've got to earn close to 10 grand. And then I heard Brad on the Mad Fientist podcast talking about travel hacking now. Now I had heard of travel hacking before but to be honest with you I was a Dave Ramsey guy and I kind of just ignored it as probably something that people did that were really reckless with credit cards.
podcaster, ramsey, travelrewards
143 - 144 Brad Barrett Credit cards are the devil.
144 - 159 Jonathan Mendonsa They are according to Mr Ramsey. They are evil and so I just ignored them and had my one single credit card that I got my 1.5 percent cashback on and that was basically it. In the meantime Brad was teaching people how to travel the world for free.
ramsey, travelrewards
159 - 241 Brad Barrett Yeah that's a perfect segue. So I mean essentially with travel hacking which I don't love the term I generally call it travel rewards but I think the general term is travel hackings So we'll go with that. But you're essentially taking your smart credit card habits which is more or less paying them off on time and in full every single month like hopefully everyone out there listening is doing and earning these massive Sign-Up bonuses on new credit cards so you're opening very targeted and specific credit cards that come with let's say fifty thousand point or mile bonus and you're just directing your regular spending. And in Jonathan's case he has this rewards card that he's getting one and a half percent which is pretty decent for a normal card but instead of using that card he's just going to use a new card for one to three months and direct his normal spending there when he hits what's known as a minimum spending requirement. So an example of that would be open up this new card spend $3000 in the first three months and get a 50 000 mile bonus. So that's like the general way that you would hear these offers phrased. So what that means is he's putting his normal spending on $3000. So that's an average of $1000 a month which for a family certainly a family like mine. A thousand bucks. Unfortunately it's pretty easy to come by in spending.
families, travelrewards
241 - 257 Jonathan Mendonsa Yeah. No if you have 300 to 500 dollars in groceries you have a few recurring bills like cell phone bill that sort of thing. Any discretionary spending. It's very easy at least for most middle class families or even entry level middle class families to hit that thousand dollar a month of regular spend.
families, midincome
257 - 314 Brad Barrett Yes. So and of course I need to say it again you are paying them off on time and in full every single month. So that 3000 is just a cumulative figure. So if you happen to hit that in the second month you know you spent 1500 a month on average and hit the 3000. That would be enough. It would trigger that 50000 point bonus. And then for most people who are in into travel hacking you're going to move on to a new card because all the value is in that initial sign up bonus. So in many cases and we're going to show you in Jonathan's case it's going to be worth even more. But in many cases out of each bonus you're going to get five hundred to $1000 dollars worth of value. So that's for putting let's say we'll use the upper bound. We'll use the $1000 if you put 3000 spending and you're getting a thousand dollars in free travel that's like getting a 33 percent rebate on your 3000 spend right which sure as heck beats the 1.5 percent that Jonathan was getting on his original card.
travel, travelrewards
314 - 397 Jonathan Mendonsa And I don't want you to think that this is this really complicated thing that you need to have to figure out. It is probably the simplest thing in the world. All I do I just put my food and my gas and a little bit of discretionary spending on a particular card that I've signed up for. I use that single card exclusively until I've done so. I never have cash if you ask me for cash I'm never going to have it I just spend on that card until I'm done or nearly done. And then if I'm in that phase I'll go ahead and pivot and open up the next card. I'm not in a rush as long as I complete the minimum spend requirements in a certain amount of time. And if you live a very frugal lifestyle even below what I live on and you don't have enough expenses to run to the card you still have some options that you can do without spending any extra money. You can plan your minimum spend around a big purchase that you have coming up. You can use the card to pay your property taxes or your income taxes. And if you're close but you need a little extra boost you can just purchase a gift card to a store that you would normally go to like a Costco or a target. And this is going to allow you to hit that minimum spend without really increasing your cost of living. But remember this this this this is the critical part the credit card companies win if you spend more than you would normally and you keep a balance on your card and they're winning a lot because you see how big their buildings are and how small our houses are. You win if you restrain yourself and you just move your normal spending to hit these bonuses and then you move on. You never keep a balance on the card. You always pay it off on time and in full.
397 - 433 Brad Barrett Yeah that's great. Great advice. And just to piggyback on what Jonathan was saying you know another thing you could do for the ultra frugal people. People with resources is potentially prepaid bills. I've seen people prepay a year worth of their electric bill or some such. My wife and I we spend money at Amazon.com fairly frequently so will buy gift cards. Amazon just on on the Web site and instantly credits as a gift card balance so little things like that. Now naturally you don't want to prepay $3000 in Amazon. But if we're talking a couple hundred bucks and you're going to use it in the next six months. All right and that's not a terrible idea certainly.
433 - 478 Jonathan Mendonsa I really wanted to come back to the point that Brad made a second ago talking about your return on investment because I think we kind of breezed by that. That was incredible. I don't know if you latched onto that but when I do my normal spending on my normal MasterCard that doesn't have any of this attached. I get 1.5 percent back. So for every three grand I spend at the end of the year they send me a check for $45 something like that. J: But if you heard what Brad said he said that if you do it the way that we're describing right now when you spend $3000 you're going to get a $1000 bonus essentially for doing that. That is a 33 percent rate of return. You can't get that anywhere anywhere. And if you were to get it in you know a taxable investment account you you'd have to pay taxes on it right. This is a 100 percent tax free. That is incredible.
478 - 551 Brad Barrett Yeah. It's amazing and just to kind of tease what we're going to do here in a minute. Jonathan is looking at an upwards of 50 to 70 percent return on his Zimbabwe trip. So just stay tuned here once we get through the the intro. But 33 percent is not the upper bound by any means. I mean I've gotten instances where I've gotten well over 100 percent Actually I got a one particular card my very very first card I got I think over four thousand dollars in free flights or a credit card that we put $2000 a minimum spend on and that's a 200 percent return. That is outlandish. I mean it's for for no expense. We just put our normal expenses on this credit card and paid it off it costs zero dollars literally zero dollars and we got $4000 of free flights that we were going to pay for anyway. So it's very similar to Jonathon's And since this was me flying back home to New York to visit our family we were going to take these flights. So this is not made up travel that we were going to do just for fun. I mean we were flying these routes anyway so that's 4000 bucks in my pocket and like Jonathan said that's after tax. So it's like getting a $6000 raise because I decided to open up one credit cards so the sky's the limit for this.
families, familytravel, travel
551 - 597 Jonathan Mendonsa Wow. That's that's cool. And as appealing as this is for anybody even entry level middle class this should be even more appealing for your big spenders and your people that are in high marginal tax brackets. For instance let's say you make six figures and you fall in a 25 percent marginal tax bracket. So you have to add onto that your state FICA Medicare. You know you could easily be approaching a 40 percent marginal tax. And for you to spend five grand six grand on travel each year you are going to need to earn seven eight or nine grand. But if you just use the techniques that we're talking about right now you're going to do it for free and you're going to keep all of that money available to you for other resources. So I'm convinced and obviously Brad is convinced hopefully if you're not convinced you're at least listening a little bit closer to hear. You know what's the catch. Right.
tax, travelrewards
597 - 720 Brad Barrett Yeah I think most people have that question right. Anything in life that sounds too good to be true generally is I'm a pretty skeptical guy pretty conservative financially. I'm a CPA so we're trained to be skeptical and conservative. I tried to poke holes in this. I mean I researched it for dozens upon dozens of hours trying to find OK what's the catch. And honestly I'm six years into this. I have yet to find the catch. I think most people are worried potentially about credit rating. I think that's people's first question and I guess my answer to that is kind of twofold. So first it would be there is a very minimal impact on your credit score. In my anecdotal experience and also like we said at the outset I mean I've worked with many many thousands tens of thousands of people at this point. I've yet to find that one person who even one single person to come back to me and say Hey Brad you screwed up my life my credit score dropped 200 points. This is a sham. I simply have not heard that your credit score is going to go up and down just naturally within 10 20 30 points just within a normal month anyway. Most people don't understand how credit scores work. But let's say you haven't paid your bill yet that month and you have twenty five hundred dollar bill outstanding at that point in time. Your credit score might be 10 or 15 points lower than it would be the day you paid it just because of what's known as credit utilization. So your score does go up and down this is not like a very precisely fixed number but just to talk about myself here for a second. I can give you exact numbers. So when I started travel hacking in early 2011 my credit score was 7 97 OK which is pretty darn good. That's a maximum Well a 850 is the max I would highly advise people and this is my second part of the credit score answer I'll get back to this in a minute but I would highly advise you only doing this if you have a 700 or more credit score. We'll talk about that in a minute. But yeah my credit score at the lowest point it dropped was 25 points. Seven seventy two was the lowest it ever was.
accountant, travelrewards
720 - 723 Jonathan Mendonsa If you just looked to that in a vacuum 772 is amazing.
723 - 757 Brad Barrett You'd be very very happy with that. That's going to get you any loan the best rate on any loan you can possibly apply for. So for my life that drop of 25 points was irrelevant 100 percent irrelevant. I didn't care I didn't bat an eyelash. I mean I've earned at this point somewhere over 2.5 million points in my miles which I estimate you know at a decent valuation are worth about 50 grand in free travel and that's after tax so probably $75000 in pretax money. So I was very very fine obviously with a 25.
travel, travelrewards
757 - 762 Jonathan Mendonsa I would trade 25 points of my own FICO score for for 75 grand in free travel.
762 - 785 Brad Barrett Yeah yeah I think I think most people went out there and the cool thing is that score jumped right back up. So right now the very last time I checked my score it was I think it was 8 15 or 16. I forget precisely but I'm actually up now almost 20 points on where I started. And this is 2.5 million points points and miles later. So yeah.
785 - 808 Jonathan Mendonsa Not not to that I mean that really actually makes sense because we are one of the things you do when you're doing this or at least when you're doing it the way Brad and I are doing it we are talking about two other people you really want to know what are the actual factors that are involved. And when you dig down in the weeds there there's a five of them that that come into play and I know one of those at least initially that maybe you know gives you that slight decrease of that bumpers is the hard pool and that's what I a 2 to 5 decrease.
808 - 883 Brad Barrett Yeah I think that's that's the guarantied drop is when you apply for a credit card. There is a hard inquiry on your credit score. And yet people say it's about a two to five point drop. So that's a guaranteed thing. But that very very quickly drops off your credit score that it's only temporary. I think you'll start seeing the lessening of that within within a couple of months and certainly within 18 months it will be completely gone. So again largely irrelevant in my opinion but yes that is essentially a guarantee that your score will drop about two points for each credit card you apply for. Now that kind of. Just real quickly gets into my second point which was if you're worried about your credit score and every point matters then I would advise that this is not the strategy for you if you have a 7 0 1 credit score and you desperately need to keep it above 700 for some reason whether that's psychological or you're applying for some loan and that's the threshold. Then listen don't get into travel rewards don't get into travel and this is not your thing now. Like my wife and I when we had nearly 800 credit scores when we started this we sat down and we actually had a conversation and we said OK if our scores drop even 50 points and they're 750 does that matter to us one bit. And the answer we quickly came to was no it matters nothing.
883 - 962 Jonathan Mendonsa You know the funny thing about that you know who does not care about FICO score at all it's Dave Ramsey in fact he will tell his audience don't worry about your FICO score. It does. It's an I love debt score. It doesn't mean anything. And so you know if you can take just the one half of that you would actually tell you know that that would almost make it seemed like this would be a good thing for you to do. On the other half is that the click bait from Dave Ramsey and Dave Ramsey should love travel hack. But there are probably a couple of people that shouldn't do it. And if you have a poor credit rating then this is not for you. If you use your credit cards to make it from one paycheck to the next is not for you. If you're about to apply for a large loan like a mortgage and you can't withstand 20 30 50 point decrease in your credit score this probably is not something for you. But for those of us who are listening to this who are living and breathing this stuff if you're living beneath your means you've implemented some of the other life hacks that Brad and I have discussed previously like crushing your expenses and you can go through some of the ideas that we've come up with. But basically if you're living beneath your means if you're if you're good with credit cards you pay on time and in full every month. You don't need these credit cards to make it from one paycheck to the next. You can crush this game and we're excited to show you how. So hopefully you're convinced and now you're asking yourself how do I get started.
debt, lifeoptimization, ramsey
962 - 972 Brad Barrett All right. So yeah we're going to talk about some of the best cards and the travel rewards world. And we're going to talk about what Jonathan affectionately called the chase gauntlet.
972 - 974 Jonathan Mendonsa Yes. Yes I came up with that. That was me.
974 - 980 Speaker He's trying to trademark that so if you hear the chase gauntlet beyond the confines of choose FI it's all Jonathan.
980 - 983 Jonathan Mendonsa Yes that was choose I trademarked.
983 - 1054 Brad Barrett All right. So the reason why the chase gauntlet exists is Chase. In my estimation has probably maybe 70 percent of the Tip-Top ultra valuable travel rewards cards. There are other banks certainly. American Express has some decent ones Citibank Barclays Capital One. But Chase is really the be all and all especially to get started. They have many of the co-branded airline cards that are essential like Southwest United British Airways and they also have their proprietary points which are called ultimate rewards and these are the absolute most valuable points in my estimation because they are transferable. OK so what that means is these points sit in your credit card account but they have 11 transfer partners airlines and hotels which means at any given moment you could transfer these points to United Southwest Hyatt British Airways and then a whole list of Singapore Airlines Korean Air. Well we'll talk about that a little bit later. So those points are ultra valuable because they are essentially miles or points in those 11 programs at any given moment.
1054 - 1074 Jonathan Mendonsa And I think one of the reasons that it's really cool that you're listening to this podcast is if you just haphazardly got into travel hacking and were doing it without a strategy you could be too far along to go back and collect some of these. And I would say that even some of the people that are the best known people in the space wish that they could go back and do it slightly differently.
podcaster, travelrewards
1074 - 1151 Brad Barrett Yeah I think Jonathan is exactly right. And the reason why this chase gauntlet exists is chase now has a rule that is loosely known as five 24. What that means is Chase will deny you getting approved for a new credit card if you have open five or more credit cards in the prior 24 months. And it's not just chase credit cards it's any any credit card so that any credit cards from any bank including and this is important including authorized user cards. So for instance what my wife and I used to do was I would open up an account in my name but say the Southwest premiere card right. I would add Laura as an authorized user and then we would both put our normal spending on there and hit the minimum span and then put the card down. And then in that case Laura would open up a Southwest premiere card that's another crucial point is that each each person can open up a card in their name and social. So that's important. Just kind of a sidebar. But in that instance for my account my southwest from here I would get one card against my 5:24 and Laura would get one card against 5:24 because she was an authorized user on my account. So that incentivizes you to not add authorized users at this point that is now a losing strategy.
1151 - 1212 Jonathan Mendonsa And it used to be a winning strategy because you could get an extra five thousand points if you did that. That is if you're listening to this beginning to 2017 This is the place that you want to start the way that we're walking you through it now would be the perfect way to get involved in this. And it's always changing a little bit and we'll try to keep you posted as we find out what new stuff is available. But right now beginning in 2017 I believe that the strategy we're about to unpack is the best one out there. The chase gauntlet is what we're calling it. And one other thing I wanted to add onto that Brad said you're limited to five in 24 months and you kind of tiptoed into the second half which is if you're married or doing this with a partner it's actually 10:24 because you can get one card for you and then get one card for them and we're all talking about authorized users we're talking about alternating opening the card in your name and then opening one for them. So this strategy this 5:24 is really a 10:24 strategy and this is a lot of travel miles. This is a this is a minimum of 500000 travel miles that you're going to have racked up by the time that you finish this over the next year or two.
1212 - 1268 Brad Barrett That's for sure. And that should be bare minimum $10000 in free travel. So we're not talking about small change here. And again to tease Jonathan's example it's going to be significantly more than that it's going to be closer to 18000. So let's get started in our opinion the best way to get started is with those chase ultimate rewards points. All right. There are a number of credit cards and again as Jonathan said we're recording this on the end of January 2017. So please keep in mind this could be different. When you listen to this sometime in the future. But the chase sapphire preferred card is probably the number one card right now. This gives you a fifty thousand point bonus. We're not going to go through every single detail of every single card but there's a another card called The Chase Sapphire Reserve which used to be the number one card when it had a hundred thousand point bonus. But that's down to 50000 now. So many people would argue whether those are one and two but I think I think it's hard to go wrong with either of those. It's kind of outside the scope.
1268 - 1295 Jonathan Mendonsa Yeah I think that's probably digging down the weeds a little bit. But we do need to discuss annual fees because we haven't really talked about that. But one of the reasons that the chase Saffar prefer to such a nice car to begin with a lot of these cards have minimum Spens which Brad talked about but they also in many cases have annual fees. They chase for our preferred is no different. It has a $95 annual fee but that fee is waived for the first year. So it's a free card and I don't think you can beat that.
1295 - 1312 Brad Barrett No I agree. And not to get into the weeds but the Chase Sapphire Reserve has a $450 annual fee that you have to pay that very first month. Now there are ways to get much of that back but still for most people really paying out $450 in an annual fee is very difficult to get over.
1312 - 1315 Jonathan Mendonsa And daunting if it's your first card that you're starting with.
1315 - 1374 Brad Barrett Agreed. I would not suggest that for anyone so. So anyway you know there are a bunch of these cards there's a chase ink business preferred card that I think most people would say would be in the top five. There's a bunch as I kind of alluded to there some Southwest cards there. United credit cards a British Airways card so you very quickly can arrive at five chase cards that you want to and need to get as part of your first five. Because as we said if you don't open these if you intersperse them with a couple of Amex cards or a Capital One card you are then at 5:24 And at that point you are not getting any more chase cards that means you cannot open at Southwest you cannot open that United card so you're locking yourself out of these cards and these big bonuses whereas if you opened five Chase cards first then you can move on to those Amex cards and the Citibank cards and the Capital One card. So in our opinion the way to go is to maximize the chase 5:24 or 10:24. As Jonathan said for a couple and then moved from there.
1375 - 1449 Jonathan Mendonsa I've spent a fair amount of time considering how I would do this if I were starting on January 1 2017. And I want to run my ideas by Brad and see if he agrees with me and how I would go about this so we just decided. Now number one card will be the Chase Sapphire preferred. I think that that is a absolute fantastic pick for the first card. It has a I believe a 3000 is it it's for it's $4000 minimum spend. It has to be achieved with a three month period. Once you're done with that I probably would go ahead and do that one for your spouse or partner as well. That would be your first to agree back now 3 and 4 are debatable and you can mix this up depending on what your goals are. But if it's early in the year so if it's December or January I would start working on the chase Southwest cards especially if you do a fair amount of domestic travel. The person who travels more frequently domestically should be the one to apply for this two card sequence. And I would start with the Southwest Airlines Rapid Rewards business card which currently interchanges right now has a 60000 point bonus. And then I would follow that by the Southwest Rapid Rewards plus credit card and you have a third one it's interchangeable. You know I would look at the bonuses to decide which is better when the bonuses are the same. I would just pick the one with the lowest fee.
travel, travelrewards
1449 - 1453 Brad Barrett Yeah and I would go with the plus because yeah it does have a smaller annual fee.
1453 - 1460 Jonathan Mendonsa Now I would not open three Southwest carts just do the minimum to get your companion pass. Brad you want to talk a load about this Holy Grail.
1460 - 1485 Brad Barrett Yeah so the Southwest companion pass as Jonathan said is loosely known as the holy grail of travel. So what it what it does for you is it gets you a designated companion can come with you for free on any Southwest flight that you book that's whether you book it with regular cash or you pay for it normally or you use points. OK. So that essentially doubles your value of any Southwest points that you have.
1485 - 1488 Jonathan Mendonsa So how many points is a domestic flight.
1488 - 1580 Brad Barrett So I mean they can vary. I've certainly seen Southwest flights as low as 5000 points each way. I've even seen flights from Baltimore down to the Bahamas for you know 50 300 points. I mean wow. Yeah I mean these it can go a significant significant way and basically how you earn the companion pass is you have to get 110. You have to earn excuse me. A hundred and ten thousand Southwest miles in one calendar year. OK. So in this case as Jonathan said the Southwest business card currently has a 60000 point bonus. The plus card has a 50000. So right there that's 110000. Now you'd have with the minimum spend you'd have about 115 thousand. And there are actually lower minimum spend surprisingly yeah there are only I know two and three. Yeah the plus is two for sure. So the business is three. So right you are the 115 and that would immediately trigger the Southwest companion pass. OK. So it's important to note that one person. OK. This is not an instance where you could get the the business card and your spouse could get the plus card. One person needs to earn 110000 and the cool thing with the companion pass is once you've triggered it it's good through December 31 of the following year. So now this should be ringing alarm bells for you which is OK. It's January of 2017 now we're you know February when you're listening to this. That means if you got moving on this immediately you could get the companion pass for 22 or 23 months which is unbelievable.
1580 - 1590 Jonathan Mendonsa Yeah. Buy one get one I mean Vegas anybody. I mean you can go anywhere in the United States and you just you can take that extra person with you and you have it for two years and it doubles.
1590 - 1594 Brad Barrett So it's essentially like having 220000 southwest.
1594 - 1596 Jonathan Mendonsa And by the way you still have the 110000 points.
1596 - 1656 Brad Barrett And when you were getting those so you didn't have to use. So that's you're not treating in 110000 for the companion. It just triggers that that benefit for you. So you have those 110000 to use and you get a free companion on every single flight you book with them. So you can see why that is. You know Jonathan would consider that you know the next set of cards to open after the sapphire preferred you know we're going to continue going through his plan. I think it's going to depend certainly on your travel goals just like anything you know. We're not locking in and saying this is the perfect plan for everyone. Right if you live near an airport that has zero Southwest flights you're right. The companioned pass is not going to be great for you. Right. If you are planning on flying to Zimbabwe like you know my co-host here the Southwest companion pass is not going to help you at all. Right. So it depends on your timeline it depends on your goals. But I think for many many people listen to this the companion pass is going to be the highest value thing you can do with your Miles.
1656 - 1695 Jonathan Mendonsa Yes absolutely and I think we can you can have an intellectual debate about the order of these to some degree I think that number one the sapphire prefered is kind of locked in. I went back and forth and it would 100 percent be based on what my travel plans are for for the next two years. If you're in a place where you want to make a bunch of domestic trips which I think probably most of us are you know if I were speaking majority of America they mostly are making domestic trips I think it makes sense for that to be there. And if you're married I think it makes sense for you to do it one time for the one person and not to then repeat it for your partner at the same time unless you have a big family that you're traveling with. Now that's absolutely. So you might space it out and then come come back to those later on.
familytravel, travel
1695 - 1717 Brad Barrett Yeah. So kind of moving along. I would personally focus and Jonathan has this on his list here which is going back to the ultimate rewards point. So now there is a card known as the chase Ink business preferred card. And now you've heard us mentioned business cards right. We mentioned the Southwest business and the chasing business preferred now. There is a very loose definition of what constitutes a business.
1717 - 1718 Jonathan Mendonsa Yes. Chase is not the IRS.
1718 - 1735 Brad Barrett They are not the IRS. You do not need a registered business. You don't need an end and you don't need payroll anything like that. There are many articles of what constitutes a business for a business credit card it could be something as simple as babysitting as simple as having an eBay store or selling on Etsy.
1735 - 1737 Jonathan Mendonsa So you're walking dogs right.
1737 - 1747 Brad Barrett So loose definition. It's not our place to say whether you should or should not apply for a business card. But many people without registered businesses get approved for these cards so we'll kind of leave it at that.
1747 - 1787 Jonathan Mendonsa And one of the things that we're going to be talking about is why you need a business starting a businesses is very important for everybody. You know it doesn't matter if you're going to become Steve Jobs but there are a lot of benefits to starting a business that you may not have considered. And you know actually this is pretty cool. Getting a applying for that business credit card was one of the things that pushed me to actually starting. Choose F-I route. I signed up for that choose F-I credit card long before I had a business model I had just had an idea and I applied for and they gave it to me. And then after I had it it was kind of empowering. Now you have a business credit card you now have a business and you know what. I built a real business around it.
1787 - 1824 Brad Barrett You know that's that is amazing. That's obviously amazing. So yeah it just kind of moving on. You know we would probably go for the Chase Sapphire Reserve next like we mentioned it has a $450 annual fee. There is a way that you get a 300 dollar travel credit per calendar year so very likely you can cut that down to $150 or potentially $150 to the good if you got the $300 in travel credit in two calendar years. So again beyond the scope of a 45 minute podcast certainly. But don't throw out the reserve card just because it has that big fee right. You can be smart about it. So then.
podcaster, travelrewards
1824 - 1828 Jonathan Mendonsa And also you should know that a lot of times we're repeating these for our spouse in many cases.
1828 - 1834 Brad Barrett Correct. Correct. So right both those cards that we just mentioned. All three of the old timer words cards we would definitely repeat.
1834 - 1860 Jonathan Mendonsa So if you are following my template currently one was Chase sapphire preferred two is repeating it for the spouse three and four was the chase Southwest cards. Five was the chase ink business preferred. Six was repeating that for the spouse seven was the sapphire reserve. Eight was repeating it for the spouse. And then you know just for the sake of completeness we rounded out nine in 10 by doing the chase for the spouses Well the Southwest cards.
1860 - 1901 Brad Barrett So that would be when your original companion passed was getting ready to expire. Your spouse could go for one that and get it for another two years. So we can debate these cards I think for Jonathan's particular instance. I would argue that he should go for the United cards. OK. So United Airlines is a personal and a business card. I think there is just based on what I've calculated in my head while we're going through this podcast here. He could get flights to Zimbabwe indefinitely or ever to have them every two years. They could fly to Zimbabwe for free if they just kept rolling through the three ultimate words as we mentioned and the two United cards. So I think that's a model he can replicate forever.
1901 - 1920 Jonathan Mendonsa Essentially that's very cool. That's where you know and just on the list that we came up with and that could be that could take you two years to run through. I would think there's a lot of spending that would go on but it's just normal spending. But that's going to provide us 710000 points which if you're maximizing those value the value of that. I mean how many what's the value of that.
1920 - 1984 Brad Barrett Yeah I mean that you know at two cents per point that's $14000 in free travel and can be much much more than that. So yeah I mean I would say at minimum that's that's 14 grand of free travel. And because of that 5:24 if we just wanted to talk about that so if Jonathan wants to do his Zimbabwe trip which again I'm kind of teasing it too much here. But you know if he just wanted to stick with these chase cards he could do that 5:24 he could go through those five chase cards and then just do it again two years down the road. It's cool. He could reapply for those cards. That's kind of the limit on chase cards as you can get the bonus every 24 months so it's 24 months after you last got the bonus on that particular card. So just using this hypothetical Jonathan could take those five cards the two United and the three ultimate rewards cards and just keep rolling through them and open them every two years. He would by definition be under 5:24 because every time he got back to a card he would be back at 4:24 because that last one would have rolled off because there would have been more than 24 months ago. So this is kind of hard to see. Not on paper but this is something he could keep doing indefinitely.
1984 - 2009 Jonathan Mendonsa That is just it blows my mind essentially just by me listening to that single podcast. Eight to 10 months ago it gave me a $10000 post-tax raise a year essentially and wow you know you could have been watching an episode of friends just over and over again. I was watching Seinfeld last night or you could listen to a podcast and you just picked up this one life hack and then you figure out how to implement into your life and now you've got a $10000 raise.
lifeoptimization, podcaster
2009 - 2026 Brad Barrett It's unbelievable and I mean in this instance Jonathan was going to spend that money out-of-pocket. This is not like oh we might go to Africa to go on a safari. This is we're going to Zimbabwe to visit my wife's family. We are going only it is a guarantee. Right. Jonathan is going to have marriage issues if he doesn't go.
2026 - 2030 Jonathan Mendonsa It would be extremely messed up for me not to make that a priority for our family.
2030 - 2057 Brad Barrett So without a doubt this is an instance where that line item on his budget which was $3000 a year because he figured they could only afford to go every other year. So that's six thousand bucks he had appropriated for flights. Zimbabwe is now cut down to 200 dollars because that is as we're going to see in a few minutes here. Those are the taxes and fees that he needs to pay out of pocket for instead of it being six thousand It's going to be 200. So I mean that's unbelievable. So
2057 - 2063 Jonathan Mendonsa maybe we should just tell people do we need to talk about when you talk about how to use your chase ultimate rewards points is that.
2063 - 2123 Brad Barrett Yeah I mean I guess we can quickly talk through that since we've made chase such a priority here so you have these ultimate rewards points. And like I mentioned earlier they sit in your credit card account. OK. So you go to your what's known as the ultimate rewards portal. OK. And there are three main options on how to redeem these these points will go from the worst to best essentially so worst is just trading them in for cash. So it's one cent per point. So the 50000 points you would get as a typical bonus would be worth $500. Nothing to sneeze at certainly but we're going to do much much better than that with our options two and three so options. Option two is to book your travel through the ultimate rewards portal. So Chase has their own little travel search engine they probably piggyback on Travelocity or something like that. But you know you're just plugging in hey I want to go from Washington to Zimbabwe and they show OK that's $3000 and they kind of tell you how many points that cost you.
2123 - 2176 Jonathan Mendonsa And this was the first rookie mistake I made when I did my first redemption and it wasn't to Zimbabwe I had a wedding and just a sidebar. That's something that most of you even if you're not international travel or should be able to relate to because the average cost to travel to a wedding in the United States $600 per person when you add in plane flights and hotels and all that stuff. And so I had a I had a cousin that was getting married in Georgia and we wanted to go to the wedding. Me and my wife and we went to the ultimate awards portal thinking that's how you redeem the points. And it's a win and a loose story in that eye I this is how I used the flight would have cost us $400 a person. I was able to use my single bonus my fifty thousand point bonus and I was able to redeem it on the portal for both two round trip flights for both of us and a rental car. A really nice one for the entire weekend. You know and that was great. But I think if I had heard what you are about to hear right now I could have done even better than that.
2176 - 2346 Brad Barrett Yeah and that's that's an important point also which is sometimes your travel just works in where you can't quote unquote maximize these miles. But Jonathan just saved a boatload of money on a trip that he was going to take anyway. Right. So I don't want to get into the weeds here and say OK you can only maximize them you're crazy to not to not transfer them and get three cents per point or something some nonsense like that. You need to look at what works for your life. OK. So that's that's an important sidebar but let's move on to option A or two which is looking through this portal. So if you get a little bonus and it depends which card you have. So if you have the sapphire reserve the one with the $450 fee you actually get 1.5 cents per point. When you book through the ultimate rewards portal. So that means that 50000 points would be worth $750 in free travel. Now the other two cards the ink business preferred and the sapphire preferred gets you one point to five cents per point. So that 50000 points would be worth $625 in free travel when booked through that portal. So that's an instance where having the sapphire Reserve is very valuable and a cool thing is you can combine all of your ultimate rewards points into the sapphire Reserve to make them all the more valuable. One point five cent per point. That's a pretty cool technique. Yeah. So that's just something to remember. Now the third and best option in my opinion is to transfer them to travel partners. Now I mentioned this earlier. There are 11 transfer partners and I get the most value personally out of United Southwest Hyatt and British Airways and now the cool thing is these points transfer in most cases. I think it's eight or nine of the 11 they transfer instantly to the point where it's literally 15 to 20 seconds. Like you'll go into your into your hyatt account you'll go into your chase account you'll send send over some points you'll really hit refresh on your browser and the points will be sitting there. So that kind of tells you you should only transfer these points at the exact moment you are ready for them. OK that is a crucial point because once you transfer them they cannot get back they cannot get back to chase. So all the flexibility and all the value is having them sitting there in case where you can send them out to those transfer partners when you're ready for them. So don't transfer them early. A quick tip here. So now what that means and I think this is probably a good segue to talk about Jonathan's actual trip to Zimbabwe. Yes what that means is in many cases you're going to get better than two cents per point in value. So that's kind of my benchmark for should I use ultimate rewards points is if I'm getting 2 cents per point or better that's a pretty good redemption in my opinion. You can see why that far outpaces the cashback at one cent per point or even the 1.5 cents per point of the ultimate rewards portal.
travel, travelrewards
2346 - 2362 Jonathan Mendonsa If you have the reserve and I was the only one I've done up to this point was the ultimate rewards point portal for that wedding and I got one point two five and at the time I was happy with that and it's and I'm still happy with it. But as a learning curve if you're coming in at this today you should really lock down that 2 cents per point.
2362 - 2388 Brad Barrett So that's again not a hard and fast rule but just kind of the back of the envelope. Just remember that it's two cents per point so you'd want to get $1000 in value out of 50000 points. All right. Just remember that so literally two seconds before we started this podcast what we did was we talked about the Zimbabwe trip and if Jonathan came to me and said Hey Brad how would I do this. So I have in his case I have a ton of ultimate rewards points. What do I do.
2388 - 2391 Jonathan Mendonsa So my I have 310000 right now guys.
2391 - 2420 Brad Barrett Yeah that's a that's a great great starting point. So my immediate response was let's head over to United Don and let's check it out. Now I know that United is a an alliance partner OK. There there's a Star alliance partner of South African Airways. Yes. So that was my original thought was there's a decent likelihood there is I know for a fact there's a South African Airways flight from JFK and I'm pretty sure there's one from Washington to Dallas.
2420 - 2422 Jonathan Mendonsa Definitely one from Dallas.
2422 - 2466 Brad Barrett So this is just in five seconds of thought. Let's go check that right because we know that United is one of the transfer partners of Chase ultimate rewards so let's kind of touch this out so we just simply went to United dot com and I mean No-Joke Jonathan we did this in 20 seconds this was five minutes. And so you just go to the main search box you just in our case we just typed in Washington D.C. and we plugged in Dallas. So Id And then Jonathan near the airport in Zimbabwe the code was h r e. So we just did that and then just real simply I clicked my dates are flexible because you know in this case Jonathan just wants to get a free trip to Zimbabwe. He doesn't care if he goes on July 4th and comes back July 11 it's and it's January now.
2466 - 2469 Jonathan Mendonsa So this is October I can make my plans around whatever comes back.
2469 - 2555 Brad Barrett Yeah exactly. So we plugged in October 2017 and clicked search for award travel and then just let it rip and click search. And the United computer just thinks for a minute and what it does is it comes back. In this case since we did my dates are flexible it comes back with a a two month at a glance calendar. And in this case there is little symbols on here that denote whether there's availability or not to use your miles. And we're looking for a saver award economy and literally every single day in October and every single day in November of 2017. There is a savior award availability to Zimbabwe which is unbelievable. So we just randomly clicked on a date and I would suggest kind of just clicking through the dates for Jonathan in this case you might find a flight on the 12th that's slightly better in connections and time then on the 15th you just don't know. But you know for a fact that there is a saver award economy on those dates. So it's just kind of trial and error from there so we just literally clicked on. I think it's the 19th here right and we scroll down and we see very simply it is forty thousand miles and actually on the way out it's five dollars and sixty cents. So to fly from Washington D.C. to Zimbabwe it would cost him 40000 miles for each ticket. OK. So for him and his wife it's 80 thousand miles and five dollars and sixty cents for each ticket is 11:28.
2555 - 2558 Jonathan Mendonsa It's just have a permanent smile on my face when I see that.
2558 - 2599 Brad Barrett It's unbelievable. It is as simple as that. Right. So we literally just just clicked and it took one minute and then we saw on the way back there was similar availability every single day. The award the taxes are a little bit higher and this is where I said that $200 before depending on which country you fly out of it looks like the African countries are charging about somewhere between 60 and 100 dollars in taxes. So that's per person. So he's looking at about he's looking 80000 miles per ticket or 160 total which he has from ultimate rewards. He almost has enough for four tickets actually since he has 310 and about somewhere between 70 and 110 dollars in taxes and fees.
2599 - 2606 Jonathan Mendonsa So I basically already have all my points racked up for for us to go to different types for the next four years.
2606 - 2607 Brad Barrett Yes good to go.
2607 - 2612 Jonathan Mendonsa Good to go for the next four years. And that is right out the gate how I saved 12 grand in travel.
2612 - 2625 Brad Barrett Yeah. It's unbelievable. Right. So just from opening a couple of cards that he mentioned you know in the chase gauntlet here he has enough for for round trip tickets to Zimbabwe which would cost him $12000 and after tax money that is as big a win as you can come.
2625 - 2653 Jonathan Mendonsa And travel hacking is not designed around making it to Zimbabwe. I'm probably the only person listening to this that needs to go to Zimbabwe. The places you go are amazing. I mean you have so many options but it does it just gives you a level of freedom. And it's it's so cool to now not think about going to visit family as making a choice between my financial future and going to see your family who I love instead it's this is a way of gaming the system and I'm going to get to do this for free and this is going to be fun.
families, travelrewards
2653 - 2705 Brad Barrett Yeah. Without a doubt I mean it's certainly fun and just to kind of mention what Jonathan was saying which is he might be the only person listening to this go into Zimbabwe. But if he can get to Zimbabwe with three minutes worth of work I mean no joke we spent honestly under three minutes doing this. You can sure as heck get to Florida. You can take your family to Disney World you can go to California. You can go to Hawaii. Right. I mean these places are simple to get through if he can get to Zimbabwe. You can get anywhere you want to go to Europe it's simple. What we kind of talk about is flexibility is very important. So I kind of brush on this earlier but if you can be flexible with the dates here that is really really crucial. If you try to shoehorn this into your normal travel like hey I need to go. You want to do it on holiday weekends. You're going to be frustrated it but if you're someone like Jonathan who said hey I'd love to visit family this fall you can do it very very easily.
familytravel, travel
2705 - 2713 Jonathan Mendonsa And we're just going to tack on a few other redemptions that were that a lot of people enjoy using these. And you know we're going to kind of wrap this up. Costa Rica.
2713 - 2828 Brad Barrett Yes. Costa Rica is actually something I didn't mention this Jonathan but it's a trip we're planning on taking actually. So I have real up and up to date knowledge on this. So Costa Rica is very very easy to fly to Southwest flies to Costa Rica. So Southwest in my opinion is the easiest of all the frequent flier reward programs you use because they don't have limitations on their award seats. Whereas people talk about blackout dates right. You've heard that term a lot and there's some validity to it. But what it usually means is there are a finite number of award seats on every single flight and people book them. So it's not the airlines job to give every single you know 200 seats on an airplane to frequent flyers. They made a lot two five 7 10 seats whatever it is right. And people book them. OK. So that's where flexibility comes in. But with Southwest it's just a simple function of their cash price. All right. So for families Southwest is going to be the easiest to use because you know generally a you can use the miles and B the flights are pretty inexpensive so they're not going to cost a ton of miles. So that's why I usually kind of focus on Southwest and that's why we talked about the companion pass earlier. But Southwest is a nice easy way to get to San Jose Costa Rica and there are a couple of neat redemptions. I think the the Hyatt. So I think it's the endass Hyatt which is one of like their little chic brands with my wife Laura and I have stayed at the endass of Fifth Avenue in New York City and it is just the best hotel we stayed at. We absolutely love it it's a perfect location and we've used our ultimate rewards points as we mentioned before to transfer them to Hyatt. Now that's like a luxury redemption. Could we have found a better way to spend our 20000 or 25000 ultimate rewards points than a night in New York City. Yes we could have. But man we thoroughly thoroughly enjoyed it. Yeah it's right there in midtown. They give you free wine at night which is super cool considering it's New York.
2828 - 2832 Jonathan Mendonsa I mean you're an account and it's a game and it's a math problem I mean what is this trip going to actually end up costing you.
2832 - 2915 Brad Barrett Yes. So I mean the Costa Rica trip would have been I don't know 4000 bucks easy for the four of us but you know we can just send our ultimate rewards points to this hyatt and it's actually only 15000 points a night which is really it's one of these I guarantee you in my opinion is that this is going to go up in category. OK. So it's going to cost more than 15000 points at some point in the future. Generally when you find these little deals actually in the last 12 months my wife and I and our family actually we stayed at two of these Hyatts that had these super deals. We found one in Asheville North Carolina which is a really cool hip liberal city. It was only five thousand points per night and that jumped up I think two categories. And now it's like twelve thousand nine so that was like a little sweet spot and we see it in one in the San Francisco Bay Area that jumped up like the week after we booked it. So we found two of these sweet spots I guarantee you this Hyatt in Costa Rica is another one. If we wanted to stay five nights it would be 75000 ultimate rewards points we just zip over to high and we'd booked the night. Simple as that. We have Southwest miles. But if we wanted to transfer them over to from ultimate rewards to Southwest we could book that too. So I mean just from having these chase points we have an entire trip to Costa Rica just like that. Yeah.
families, familytravel
2915 - 2917 Jonathan Mendonsa And then you can go to Hawaii.
2917 - 2978 Brad Barrett Yeah Hawaii is obviously another big big destination. There are a bunch of sweet spots and I just kind of alluded to this in the high conversation but sweets spots are generally when you can find some kind of almost kind of like game game the system a little bit it's usually using a partner's miles to book a flight. So for instance we mentioned with Zimbabwe Jonathan can use United miles to book a South African Air flight or in his case it might be Ethiopian air. Any alliance partner you can use the miles of to book on a flight of another alliance partner as long as there is the award availability. So in this instance there are a couple of sweet spots to Hawaii using pardoner miles and in this case you can get them all from Chase ultimate rewards up there. What a shock. I mean you can see we're not we're not in the bag here for Chase Chase not paying us for this certainly. But these these are the best points. They just they simply are. There's no other way to get started other than with ultimate rewards.
2978 - 3023 Jonathan Mendonsa You know I was talking to someone at the mustache camp that we were at earlier this month that her name's Marla and she is just a redemption expert and she was telling me one of the things that she does with her friends and family is once she decides what she wants to go she plans it all out. And then she gets one or two of her friends and she just advises them exactly what sequence of credit card she wants them to open when they need it have it done by and she just does it all for him and then after they've done those steps you know maybe a year ahead of time she just maps out the whole redemption and it's really nice to go to one of these places like Hawaii or Asia Philippines Costa Rica how much cooler is it if you can go with your neighbors or your friends. And how much cooler than that is it if you've been able to help them hijack this whole experience and do it for free and you're just kind of gaming the system together.
3023 - 3132 Brad Barrett Yeah I mean that is awesome. Marla is fantastic. She was one of the best people I met at camp mustache and yes she is a wizard with redemption. So hopefully we can get her on in the future to kind of talk through some fun fun trips she's taken. But you know just to quickly finish with Hawaii. There is a you can use British Airways miles actually to fly American Airlines and Alaska Airlines and it only costs 25000. While British Airways wants to fly round trip from the West Coast and the West Coast is important there has to be a there are 10 10 to 12 airports that you can fly from the West Coast to Hawaii for only 25000 round trip. And now compare that with the standard award chart for American United and Delta is 45000. So that's kind of the baseline. So that's when we look at a sweet spot. We look at the baseline in this case it's forty five thousand if we can get it for fewer than 45000. We have a sweet spot. OK. So clearly 25000 is one of them. British Airways as we said is a transfer partner of ultimate rewards. Now Korean Air is random. You would think What would I ever do with Korean Air Miles. Well they are a Sky team partner of Delta. All right. And there are lots and lots of Delta flights. And if you can find a Delta level one saver flight you can actually use Korean Air miles to fly to Hawaii and it only costs 25000 and that's regardless of what part of the country it's not just the West Coast. OK. So Korean Air actually just added a functionality where you can search for this on their Web site which is actually very useful you had to previously call and there was just a big disaster. So twenty five thousand roundtrip to fly Delta from anywhere in the U.S. and I think it's actually only 45000 Korean Air miles to fly first class. Wow Delta. So that's cool. Which is unbelievable.
3132 - 3133 Jonathan Mendonsa It's only Eighty thousand you would think one way.
3133 - 3186 Brad Barrett Yeah. It's incredible. I mean that based on the baseline right. It's 45000 in economy normally for Delta if you had Delta miles but it would only be 40 45000 roundtrip for Korean Air Miles in first class on Delta. So I mean that is the ultra ultra sweet spot. And just finally you can also use Singapore Airlines miles to fly United flights. OK. Because they're at Star Alliance partners. So using these partners and that costs 35000 roundtrip but united availability is pretty plentiful. So even though that's more than the 25000 we mentioned previously for British Airways and Korean It's still a nice sweet spot that I've seen a lot of people use. So Hawaii if you have some flexibility and you're not going during the summer you know you're in the summer is going to be difficult but because everybody is going there. But if you have some flexibility on dates and times Hawaii is a really really simple one to get to. And that's a big savings.
3186 - 3191 Jonathan Mendonsa And you can also use some of the same tactics to go to Europe from the East Coast.
3191 - 3250 Brad Barrett Yeah that's absolutely true. So yeah similar to the distance from the West Coast to Hawaii. It's actually almost identical using British Airways miles from the East Coast and even as far west as like Chicago using British Airways miles to fly their partner Air Lingus and Air Berlin to a lesser degree. There aren't as many options to Europe. OK. So this has changed a little bit recently but it's still a huge sweet spot in it beyond the scope of this one podcast certainly to talk about all the details of this system but the baseline is normally 60000 miles round trip to fly from anywhere in the U.S. to Europe because 60000 is our baseline. You can now get these flights on Aer Lingus from I think it's six or seven different airports for only twenty six thousand miles round trip in what's known as their off peak time but that's like almost two thirds of the year. So that's less than half. You're getting a 50 percent plus discount.
3250 - 3286 Jonathan Mendonsa There's a lot of numbers being thrown out and I realize that but one of the cool things that you should be thinking about is when you're starting with the chase gauntlet and you're building up this arsenal of these ultimate rewards points and if you remember right now I said after a year of this essentially I have 300 and 10000 of them. Those transfer one to one to a lot of these other partners. So just when you hear him say the points or airline for the most part with maybe a couple of exceptions were going to be able to transfer that. Arsenal of Chase points that we've build up and then use them for some of these expensive trips. So just to run through what we said so far. Costa Rica Hawaii Asia Europe there are so many options.
3286 - 3328 Brad Barrett Yeah you can fly essentially anywhere you want and within the U.S. you know we're not trying to be snobs here. You have to go somewhere exotic. You just want to go to Florida right. Yeah. You can easily do that. You can fly in southwest they fly and to Orlando a ton of places Fort Lauderdale. So this is not the first class high flyers society here. This is just we want to take our family out on a vacation to Florida. You can easily do that. So please don't think we're being snobs here at all. This is if you want to take yourself your spouse your family on 1 to 2 free vacations or nearly free vacations because you're going to have to pay some ancillary fees. But if you want to take 1 to 2 nearly free vacations every year you can do that with travel rewards. It's as simple as that.
familytravel, travelrewards
3328 - 3382 Jonathan Mendonsa So in an hour and three minutes we basically summed up this game for you and we've given you an outline of what we would do if we are starting from scratch how we would do it why we would do it. Who's a good fit for who should avoid it and then kind of given you the long term vision of how you can actually go about redeeming these points. So the next step is you just need to get started. And if you want to get started with us we've actually created an entire section on our Web site for learning about travel rewards actually starting to open up some of these cards if that's something that you're interested in. You can go to choose F-I dot com slash 0 0 9 that will take you to this podcast episode. You can also go to our experiment section and go to our Web page. It's called travel rewards. And on that page there will be a link to our cards page which you can actually get started with the Chase Sapphire preferred if that's what you want to do. And we hope this was helpful. Any final thoughts Brad.
podcaster, travelrewards
3382 - 3404 Brad Barrett No I would say just listen to this podcast listen to it again just really take to heart that this is real. It's very very easy and you should get started. In my opinion I think this is one of the lowest hanging fruit items in the in the personal finance world. Honestly this is five to $10000 raise just by being a little bit smarter than the next guy.
Brad_Catchphrases, podcaster
3404 - 3423 Jonathan Mendonsa And nobody looks at this as personal finance. This is personal finance. I had to make that trip. I had to budget money for that and now I don't. And that that directly affects my ability to take that six grand and put it into an investment account to put it into starting a business. I mean that those are real dollars behind that and we think this is the untold story.
3423 - 3448 Brad Barrett Yeah. It's so powerful what Jonathan just said and this is this is the low hanging fruit if you're looking for actionable items from this podcast which is what we want to get across. Get started. Listen to this podcast again take it to heart read our pages. You know choose FI dot com. And we're here to help. So we probably in all likelihood will do future episodes on travel rewards and you know this is this is the way to get started.
podcaster, travelrewards

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