032R - The Friday Roundup

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Time Speaker Text Tags
1 - 7 Jonathan Mendonsa Ok we're back congratulations you've made it to the weekend. This is your Friday roundup and as usual I have Brad here with me in the studio. How are you doing Brad.
7 - 9 Brad Barrett I'm doing great Jonathan. And what's going on with you.
9 - 27 Jonathan Mendonsa I am I'm starting to make summer plans. Trying to figure out exactly what that's going to look like. We're trying to figure out what we can do. We're finding out more and more of that with our son. We can't do anything at least outside. So while you may be down at the pool every day we are sitting inside looking outside thinking oh that looks nice.
27 - 37 Brad Barrett You know I hear you it's so hot here and really ridiculous and we kind of talking about that like what was our life like before we went to this pool. So I definitely can appreciate that.
37 - 46 Jonathan Mendonsa Well you can just take pictures of my family all three of us staring out the window looking longingly at the people walking down the street saying maybe 2018.
46 - 66 Brad Barrett Nice. Yeah that sounds good. And we actually have kind of a cool thing coming up this weekend we have a little richmond. FI get together which should be fun. Which hopefully can maybe even expand these beyond Richmond have one in D.C. or in North Carolina somewhere and. Yeah. Who knows. It's just kind of it should be a real fun time to get together with some like minded people.
66 - 71 Jonathan Mendonsa Super excited about that get to go to Costco and get my blue moon variety pack.
71 - 72 Brad Barrett It's very impressive.
72 - 103 Jonathan Mendonsa I come to impress so this past week we had this episode with Joel from FI 180 dot com and we did the milestones of FI and I was super excited because I felt like these were metrics or milestones that you could actually grab hold of. And I didn't feel that that was something that I had read at least in that tangible format. We had a couple of people e-mail us and said that there were a few other people in our space other influencers who had done something similar notably J.D. Roth had done one called the six stages of financial independence. Am I right about that Brad.
103 - 112 Brad Barrett Yeah. Britney and Laura both send us emails saying precisely that about JD's article yeap it was called the six stages of financial freedom is the title.
112 - 155 Jonathan Mendonsa OK. So I thought it'd be kind of cool to go take a look at those and mention them on the podcast just since JD's been such an influence on both of our lives. And although I was not aware of this particular article. Let's go ahead and give those a plug real quick. Stage zero was dependence. Stage one was solvency. Stage two was stability. Stage 3 was Agency stage 4 was security stage 5 was independence and Stage 6 was abundance So we'll link to that in the articles. You can check those out if you're interested. One of the things I liked about the milestones that Joel wrote as I very much felt like depending on your number it would be very easy to check the box and say I am here you know that there was something very tangible about those milestones and for me it just made it a very enjoyable read.
155 - 208 Brad Barrett Yeah I agree. And people like to see progress right. I talk about this all the time on the podcast. It's progress in every aspect of life. What I'm trying to do and trying to just get better and I think the path to fi can be a lonely one. And I think that might be partially why people like our podcast so much and like the Facebook group because it's a sense of community. But for many of us especially before this came around like this is a long lonely path with very few milestone for many people it's just not fi and fi it's 0 or 1. And I think that it's just not good enough. I mean I think we do need these milestones and you know Jonathan I think you and I plan to kind of update these and maybe drill down and get them more specific and hopefully the community can help us with this. I know we've had a lot of input on the Facebook group this week and that's we're going to do today is kind of talk about some more real concrete milestones maybe earlier on in the path.
208 - 260 Jonathan Mendonsa Yeah in fact as much as we added all these milestones in and we tried to do some earlier ones I kind of feel like we just left this huge gap in between F-you money and being at half FI. There's a lot of time in between those two I would love to if not give you milestones give you check points you know Joel gave me credit for gamifying things and I'm certainly not the first person to gamify personal finance but I am probably the first person to try to do it on a twice a week basis consistently giving you little things that you can get excited about as I do when I read a new article in the light bulb goes off. I want to tell everybody and frankly my wife can only take so much of my excitement before she says Please find some more friends to go talk to this stuff about. So that's it. That's what you guys are bringing you in on this. I'm sharing how excited I get about these concepts. And fortunately no one else wanted to listen I have Brad so I can at least talk to him about it twice.
260 - 261 Brad Barrett You're welcome.
261 - 348 Jonathan Mendonsa Thank you so much. My sanity is in check. So I think the place to really start is and again these are the milestones. There's a mentality aspect to this that I think other people have touched on but I think for us we want to focus on more tangibles. So the first one the most obvious place to start that we mentioned but then for whatever reason didn't label as a milestone I would say the first milestone is when your financial freedom clock starts. So we latched onto the concept that it is net worth a positive net worth and all of your consumer debt paid off except for your home. And we had an asterix by the home because there's some variability there. I would say that for the fi community as I thought about it more and more I read that we might also need an asterix by the student loans as well although I think for 90 percent of our audience it involves having your student loans paid off. There is enough of a segment in our audience that are considering student loan repayment options and have done the math to prove that they will pay less. And in our community it's all about the math. We're not dogmatic about any particular topic. We just want to explore your options and then come up with the most optimized path so if that is the math that you're running and you've decided that by using a loan repayment service or by gaming it out another way it will actually work to your advantage to not pay them off but to invest but you've already jumped on board with everything else. I think that you can make the case that your student loans can have that aspect as well but certainly you're not going to have any other consumer debt and you would have a positive net worth. Brad what are your thoughts on that.
college-loans, debt, networth
348 - 422 Brad Barrett Yeah that sounds reasonable I think. Like you said it always comes down to the math. So someone got on you a while back for having a car loan. But again they didn't ask you what your interest rate was. Right so if it was 0 or 1 percent then that makes sense rather like it's not if you had a $300000 net worth and a $10000 car loan with a 1 percent interest on it. Well you're obviously past milestone one. Right. I mean that's just that's a that's a decision you've made that it makes sense financially and mathematically for you to have that car loan so I'm fine with decisions like that so I don't want to be dogmatic with no debt. I mean clearly clearly if you have credit card debt you've got to get rid of that. I mean that's 20 percent interest or whatever it is if you have any kind of really I mean payday loans you know hopefully nobody in our audience has these things but absurdly high interest rate debt. That's got to go. But I mean if you're talking student loans and you've made a determination you're going to pay it off over time. And like you said some repayment option. That's a separate case a mortgage I mean you can expect somebody to necessarily pay off their mortgage to just get on the milestones right. So because I would be a milestone zero of that but that you're just you just horrible at life man.
college-loans, debt, networth
422 - 426 Jonathan Mendonsa Come on you've got get podcast and you're at Milestone zero.
426 - 446 Brad Barrett Yes. So a lot of this comes down to where you are in your own head and where you determine you are on this continuum here. So and I think that's actually one thing I want to talk about at the tail end is my response to where I am on this this fine path and I know in speaking with my wife Laura we had a little a little tiff about this. So.
446 - 450 Jonathan Mendonsa So I'm just skipping everything in the middle and going to that part to listen to that right now.
450 - 467 Brad Barrett Yes that should be good. It wasn't that big of you. But you know I think it proves that you can't just give a flippant answer to that. You need to kind of think it through and going back to your actual question is the financial freedom clock. So Jonathan can you just for anyone who didn't hear them monday episode can you give a little background on that.
467 - 522 Jonathan Mendonsa Yeah absolutely. So the financial freedom clock is a term that was coined by Jeremy over at Go Curry cracker and essentially and we reference it back and I believe episode 18 so you can go back and listen to that episode if you want but at some point in time your countdown to FI begins. And when you're still cleaning up all your crap from past mistakes and past choices it's really hard to get that thing going. So in that episode we basically established that your financial freedom clock is when you've got rid of all of your consumer debt. You've gotten rid of your student loans and now you have a very linear focus on increasing your net worth to the point where you can say I am at FI and you have to take care of all that baggage before you can really get there. But from the time that you've got a positive net worth you've cleaned up all the consumer debt you don't have the couch payment anymore. That's when that financial freedom clock starts ticking down my friends and you're getting closer and closer to your goal when you're in our community. That goal is financial independence.
college-loans, debt, networth
522 - 532 Brad Barrett I like that so OK. So $0 or you know $1 net worth or more and any of the garbage debt is gone. Right. That's that. That's how we want to say this. Essentially.
debt, networth
532 - 605 Jonathan Mendonsa Yes. And if you want to make a case for your singular case and your justification on your student loans or your mortgage you know first of all we just want to let you know you're fine that's fine if you have a case to make. Just make your case do the math make sure you're being intentional. But the general concept remains with what we just said. All right. So that is milestone one. And I think milestone number two this is where we hopped in and we said it's the personal capital phone call which I love. I think that that is a very specific metric that you can use. But when you peel the curtain back and you take a look at what that actually means. That's a six figure net worth that is you have your hundred thousand dollars in your investment vehicles and personal capital will then give you a phone call offering a free consultation once you've hit that metric. If you're using their service and that is a service that both Brad and I use We've used it for a long long time five six seven years now and most of the community bloggers especially use that use that tool as just a great way to track all of your different accounts in one place and I can say I have my VTSAX there can track there I can track my retirement accounts and they're tracking my wife's retirement accounts and their able to put it all together which is really cool to be able to put all those assets in one place and then you can see them go up or down together right.
blogger, college-loans, indexfunds, networth
605 - 629 Brad Barrett Yeah indeed and it's a useful tool. And you know this is obviously a cutesy thing that Joel came up with. You know we talked about on the Monday episode clearly the larger point is the $100000 net worth. I mean that's that's the milestone. It's it is cute that you will start getting calls from personal capital and and I like that as kind of a fun milestone. But yeah clearly the bedrock of this is the $100000 net worth.
629 - 731 Jonathan Mendonsa And it was perfectly timed. Drew when he heard the episode he commented on our Facebook group and he said after listening to today's podcast I'm happy to report that we completed our first five milestone and he actually took a screenshot of his transcript on his phone and the transcript said hey this is Andrew calling from personal capital. Schedule your free financial review. A great way to get a second opinion on your current investment strategy ensure you're on the right track to meet your goal. We can be reached by calling 8 5 5 5. We look forward to speaking with you and have a great day. This is awesome. This is actually what your personal capital phone calls going to look like. I hope it ends well for you too much. But Drew congratulations for completing the first FI milestone. I think we're going to make the case today that it might actually be the second or the third So you're even farther along on this journey than you thought. A little bit of controversy we had just between us while we were in the episode was that depending on your annual spend you'd there's the case to make that you might actually hit this next milestone before you hit the personal capital milestone. And that one is F-you money and Joel defined F-U money as one to two years worth of expenses. And we talked about the psychological power that having one to two years of expenses saved up would give you and your own personal life and it essentially gives you more power at work. It gives you the ability to make decisions that are your best interests and worst case scenario if you're to be let go or you are a step away. You don't need to worry about how to keep the lights on because you have one to two years worth of your day to day expenses ready to go and then you can use your leisure and take your time to find the right fit for yourself and your family. And that's very powerful. It gives you the upper hand in negotiations. It gives you the upper hand and just your own mental health and well-being. It's a much more powerful look at the emergency fund. What are your thoughts on that Brad.
Jonathan_Catchphrases, emergencyfunds
731 - 799 Brad Barrett Yeah I love the concept of F-you money. I think it is very nebulous though and I think that's why there's some you know quote unquote controversy or you know just disagreement over where this fits in in the milestones because it comes down to to you personally. Right. Like you might feel that you have that you have F-You money if you have four months worth of expenses saved up and that's fine. You know like we always mention here like this is all personal. It's how you want to look at FI look at life look at your journey. So if you think F-U money is starts at four months of expenses great and that's fine by me you know I think I am a little more conservative when it comes to money. So for me it would be two to three years of my annual spending saved up. So I think I wouldn't really consider that I had a F you money before then. But like I mentioned in the money episode, F-you money really does follow you throughout this entire process so it becomes stronger and stronger and you have more power as your net worth increases. And as you get closer to actual FI so that that's an important thing to remember is F-you money and that concept is always in the background here.
Jonathan_Catchphrases, networth
799 - 824 Jonathan Mendonsa And as a result of that you could make the case that those two are really interchangeable and that F-you money could in fact be. So if the financial freedom clock was milestone one that F-you money could be a milestone two and personal capital could be three or you could switch those depending on your particular life status but at some point it's good to acknowledge yourself. Yeah I have my F-you money and whatever that is for you. You can check that box once you're ready to get there.
824 - 833 Brad Barrett Yeah I agree. And I would since we are revisiting these I think there really should be a milestone for this 100000 slash F-you money.
833 - 836 Jonathan Mendonsa Sounds like there's a man with a plan. What do you got.
836 - 869 Brad Barrett Well I don't I don't know if I have a plan where we're going to talk it through. I mean for some people realistically it could take years to get to $100000 of net worth. So I would hate for that person to not be able to check some of these milestones or not feel like they're making progress if they're at $10000 net worth and then 13000. And because that is right and that's important. So I don't know. I mean Jonathan do you have any thoughts of not to sandbag you on this but like anything between zero and 100000 that make sense other than just arbitrarily saying 50000 or something like that.
869 - 943 Jonathan Mendonsa Well 50000 doesn't sound that arbitrary to me I thought it was clever but if you're going to take that one away from me yes I can come up with a backup for my backup. Yeah. It's actually a great question and I do have some feedback for it. We put it out to our Facebook group to just see what else could we throw in here and I think the distinction that I'm going to make though is that there are some checkpoints. Joel give me credit for like gamifying things. And I think that a checkpoint is like this perfect intermediate to get excited about. Along the way I don't know if you had quite the same credo as you would a milestone but I think it's one of these things that once you've checked it off you can give yourself a little pat on the back even if no one else cares and feel good about yourself. So things like that first time that you aren't paycheck to paycheck you know that first time that you put something on the 72 hour list where you go for me that impulse buyer as soon as you want it you buy it too. Now let me think about this decision and be a little bit more intentional with it that first time that you max out a traditional IRA that first time that you max out your 401k that first time that you pay zero dollars in taxes. Right. These are little things that not everybody is going to experience but a lot of us can when we're actually applying our minds to it.
401k, ira, tax, traditional
943 - 970 Brad Barrett Yeah I love that. This is actually the first time I'm hearing of it. So have these these checkpoints in parallel with the larger milestones so. Yeah that's a cool. That's a cool way of doing it because again it gamifies it and it gives people a sense of progress. So again any input from the audience on just more of these right we can brainstorm as many checkpoints as we want. Because like Jonathan said some people are going to hit them some people aren't. They're just these things in the background to know oh wow I feel good about myself I check this thing off. So that's pretty cool.
970 - 1003 Jonathan Mendonsa And I would love to take total credit for it but Louise threw out like six or seven of these and a couple of my just hijacked that this is a really cool and that you'll get excited about. For those of us that love travel rewards when you get one million one million. One million rewards points or miles. How cool is that. That is a pretty cool metric that you would only experience in our community and have an audience that you could get excited about it with and then also this is another one. This is a huge one. And one of my favorites and I did have mine recently reaching that 50 percent savings rate. That is huge right.
savings, travelrewards
1003 - 1022 Brad Barrett Yeah that is huge. That's really really awesome. Yes I mean you know it's funny as you're saying and I'm like oh well we could have another checkpoint of I took my first travel rewards trip for free or nearly free. That's a checkpoint for the million miles. I mean we can keep spinning this out and just making it more and more fun. I mean obviously we don't have hundreds of these things right.
1022 - 1059 Jonathan Mendonsa I'm going to make an info graphic. It's going to be like six feet long with 200 different checkpoints that you can hit along the way. And then I'll have it turned into a poster that you can get and put in your man cave or in your What's the opposite of a man cave. Is that a woman cave. You put it on the wall and you just check it as you go. But there's got to be like 100 of these little things that you can hit along the way. And Luis Those are awesome ideas I especially that 50 percent savings rate. Very inspiring and doable for most people once they've tackled some of these other challenges first. So those were checkpoints. I don't think any one of those Brad could be set as a milestone. Do you feel like any of those rise to the level of a milestone.
1059 - 1061 Brad Barrett No I wouldn't say so at this point.
1061 - 1135 Jonathan Mendonsa Yeah yeah. But but anyways if you have one to add that we missed and we certainly think that this conversation got started and did not get finished here please join our Facebook group choose FI dot com slash Facebook. Give us your feedback your input your ideas things that you got excited about when you realize that for the first time you hit this marker. I know that we had someone in our community was saying that they basically make a note on their calendar every single time they hit a new 50 grand marker. So every single time their network goes up by 50 k that gets a note on their calendar for them that's just an additional step that they're getting a little bit closer to their goal. So whatever it is for you we're interested and we would like to adopt some of those. And basically when you hit one of these little check points just take a second and feel good about it and recognize that although it's historically has seemed like kind of a wasteland. You're either FI or you're not FI. No you're getting a little bit closer to freedom every single day that you make the choice to be intentional. And that's the power of being in a community like this. Is that your mindset is so focused. And inevitably if you can stay focused on your goal for extended periods of time one year two year three or ten years everything speeds up one plus one is not two it's twenty five times your annual expenses you know in the construct of our fi community.
1135 - 1144 Brad Barrett Yeah I think that's what Joel was kind of talking about with the crossover point right Jonathan that was an interesting one for later in the milestones I think we had that somewhere around six right.
1144 - 1205 Jonathan Mendonsa Yes. We'll get there soon so let's see. So we've got the financial freedom clock was the one that I felt like we really did a disservice by not labeling as a milestone. And so I would say that that's one and then we say either F-you money or personal capital is too and the other one would be three. And then now we're looking for our fourth one which was half FI which basically means that you have half the money you need to reach financial independence. And as an extension or another cute way of looking at it either you or your spouse or partner if you're married one of you is now officially FI and the other cool thing to recognize when you get there is that just because you have half the money does not mean you're halfway there you're actually closer to two thirds of the way there. Because at this point your money is actually working for you. And that goes back to us talking about the power of time the power of getting this started early on in your journey making those right decisions as soon as possible. And the power of passing this on to the next generation as well capturing the imagination while you're young because if you make a few right choices early on it prevents you from having to make quite as many right choices later on.
2ndgenfi, Jonathan_Catchphrases
1205 - 1235 Brad Barrett Yeah and you see those calculators of the person who started at age 20 saving $3000 a year versus the person who started saving at 35 and they have to save X number of thousands dollars more per month or whatever it is just to catch up. So yeah I mean the power of time and compounding is crucial and that's a much larger point that many of us in the FI community understand but just getting started. That's what we talked about a lot here is just taking action and getting this money working for you.
1235 - 1266 Jonathan Mendonsa So after milestone number 4 you come to milestone number five and this is lean fi and lean fi is extremely appealing to me because at this point you essentially have enough money to cover all of your core expenses all of your survival expenses. You can keep the lights on you keep food in your stomach. Your baseline is completely secure for life. It doesn't cover your discretionary spending. But power you have by knowing that no matter what happens you can survive once you latch onto that. That is power right there.
1266 - 1322 Brad Barrett Yeah. Joel's quote was this is an emergency fund that will last for ever. And that to me that resonated. I just I absolutely love that quote and clearly you're not going to want to live this way every single day for the rest of your life. It's not the ideal scenario to not have one dollar of discretionary income. But if you flip that on its head and you say wow I can live forever if I had to just on my essential items and I mean that is a crucial milestone. And for Joel he said it was 70 percent of his FI number which means 70 percent of his annual spending is the bedrock foundational items and 30 percent is discretionary currently. And for each of us it's different. So again this is dependent on you and your life and what works for you. So that 70 percent is not a hard and fast number but I suspect many people will be somewhere in that 60 to 80 percent let's say.
emergencyfunds, myfinumber
1322 - 1416 Jonathan Mendonsa And Joels number that he was talking about his life cost $25000 a year for his general lifestyle and that included core expenses and discretionary spending. I think that was a goal I think he was saying he was actually closer to 30 trying to get it down to 25. And there's a lot to touch on there. Why that challenge can be fun and is useful to consider. One of the things that struck me is that for him $25000 goes a lot farther because he doesn't have a mortgage. And so when I was looking I was doing a similar exercise for myself and mine is up closer to 35 or $40000 a year. And I have a mortgage baked into that. But what struck me when I was thinking about it is in our community just because you don't have a paid for house does not mean that you can't have that similar lifestyle so you're thinking. Well Joel can live for $25000 a year because he already paid for his house which means he had a high income. That's fine you can say that. But the more creative approach would be how can I live for free in our community we already have examples of people that have figured this out. And specifically I'm thinking of a house hacking if you really wanted to make this choice if you are really open to just winning and you just wanted to know what it was you didn't know you could go listen to episode. I believe it's 16 with Coach Carson about house hacking. And you could use that same tool to essentially purchase a duplex triplex or quad live in one side. Rent out the other three and they are essentially are paying off your mortgage plus you may even be making a profit and you would essentially be able through that one creative choice reduce your expenses by the amount necessary to reflect the lifestyle that Joel was living. So I'm not telling you that you have to do that but I think it's very limiting to say I can't do that because I don't have a paid for house.
1416 - 1473 Brad Barrett Yeah I definitely like the creativity there. And that will work for some people won't work for others. But but again just thinking a little bit differently so you might think that might not work but why not actually run the numbers do some research. You know I'm not advocating that in particular but I think it's a cool idea if nothing else. And I think this also comes back to the math too. Paying off your house sounds good in theory but many of us don't do it because we believe as opposed to that money sitting there idly essentially in equity tied up in this house. It can be in the market earning hopefully more. Right. I think that's the mathematical play here is why people go back and forth over whether it makes sense to pay off your mortgage. So that's a whole separate argument obviously but naturally in that case if you didn't pay off your mortgage you would have a higher annual spending. But in theory your assets in the market would be significantly higher as well. So it depends on like how you calculate your FI number I guess.
1473 - 1527 Jonathan Mendonsa That's a great point but I do want to slow down here because I think that even though I recognize that you're talking to the FI community and the FI community is a very odd cohort and we do look at that as well I could either invest the money and pay off my house or I can invest the money in the stock market. I think when you take that message and you apply it to the public at large they may get the first part which is well I'm not going to pay down my house because I don't think that's a good investment. I can make more the public large does not make that second choice to max out their investment vehicles. They don't recapture that savings and use it and throw it into any sort of investment vehicle. In many cases it just goes to lifestyle creep. And that's what's different about our community that's why we can have an intellectual discussion about the pros and cons of paying off the house because once you've made the choice that you're going to save 50 percent of your income that money is going to get used to buy yourself an asset. Either way you're just making the choice of which asset you want to plug that money into.
savings, stocks
1527 - 1580 Brad Barrett Yeah. Now that's a good point without without question. And clearly I'm not talking about not putting the money into savings and just blowing it and other useless garbage in your life. And so a lot of this I guess is psychological. So I think that's that's another aspect that we didn't really touch on here but have in the past. While the math might tell you one thing. Psychology also impacts it as well. Right. There is this allure to me of paying off my mortgage even though I know mathematically it's not the smartest thing or I believe. Let's say that it's based on the evidence that I've seen that it's not the smartest thing. But man would it feel good to not have that mortgage. So that is powerful to me. And going back to the very beginning and this is my setup here is you need to either invest this money fully or put it into your mortgage fully. That's what we're talking about here we're not talking about oh I'm not going to invest and I'm going to fritter some of it away. So hopefully everybody listening to this understands where it's going.
1580 - 1638 Jonathan Mendonsa And I think this is a fine line in the community we have the ultra optimizers and then we have those of us that maybe are coming in from more of a Dave Ramsey perspective and I'll count myself in that group extremely debt averse. For those of us that just love cash flow and those who are waging a war against each other there's something so appealing to me about being able to say that I can live my life just the way I have it right now. For $20000 a year $25000 a year $30000 a year as opposed to 40 or $50000 a year. If I have my mortgage and so those two are at odds with each other and you kind of have to make a choice. The cool thing is either one of those choices is a winning proposition. You're going to win either way. I guess you can make the case about the marginal benefits of one over the other but you're so far and away from the choice that everybody else is making the normal run of the mill choice that I don't want you to come away from this conversation thinking that there's a bad option here. There may be a better option or a best option but either way this story is going to end very well for you.
debt, ramsey
1638 - 1658 Brad Barrett Yeah. And you know it's funny I guess I consider myself an optimizer in life generally but I'm definitely with you. Like there is just that allure of having your life expenses being 20 year $25000 like you just have so much flexibility then and you just simply don't need that much money. So there is that mental lure to me of that.
1658 - 1677 Jonathan Mendonsa And the stuff that you can do with your tax bracket that you fall in to me there's something so awesome about saying I didn't pay anything in taxes this year or I was able to play all these games with the saver's credit or everything else because my life cost nothing. I didn't have to take my income I mean I don't know. You kind of give up some of that when you're in some of these higher marginal brackets.
1677 - 1728 Brad Barrett Yeah it does seem like you have a lot more in the way of fi hacks like Major hacks you know potentially getting college for free if your income is below some amount or healthcare for free if you know the current system holds. And I mean there are a lot of these really advanced FI hacks that you're able to take advantage of if your income is ultra ultra low. So I would love someone smarter than me to go out and make the case mathematically for it for that point where you just get so many benefits just thrown on you if your income is let's say twenty five thousand or less once you're at FI. Obviously that's what we're talking about here income being usually pulling that money out of a 401K or some type of retirement vehicle. So clearly we're not talking about people living on $20000 a years of income. You know just normally in life. But yeah that would be an interesting calculation.
401k, college, healthcare
1728 - 1798 Jonathan Mendonsa And the thing is for other people maybe looking at the outside I'm not talking about living in a tiny house. I'm talking about having a $75000 year lifestyle while your expenses only cost you twenty or twenty five thousand dollars a year. So it's a very generous optimistic lifestyle and there's ways to do this just a little bit smarter. Now I will say that big Ern from earlier times now who we are actually interviewing in the next couple of weeks. He made the case to me to not pay off my student loans and take advantage of essentially being able to reduce your marginal tax bracket. I mean certainly you can make the case for it either way. So I think those are like two tandem storylines that you should explore thoroughly one all the benefits of being able to spend a decade or two decades in a very low marginal tax bracket versus just delaying it all out and letting your loans ride while you optimize your tax advantaged vehicle. So anyway I just it just a very interesting conversation and one that we can do. Alright so milestone number 6. is the crossover point and this is one that when you're tracking your investment vehicles you're looking for that point in time where for the first time ever your money earned more than you did from working. So your dollars are working harder than you are you know 24 hours a day. Brad why don't you go and set this up as an example so people can visualize this.
college-loans, tax
1798 - 1866 Brad Barrett Yeah this is cool and and I hadn't really considered this as a milestone before Joel and I really love it. So I guess just hypothetically at least this is the way that I look at it so let's say your net worth in the market is $300000 and the market went up 3 percent that month. So your assets went from 300000 to 309 0 0 0. So they went up by $9000 with you doing nothing. You did no work the money. That's just from past savings and let's say even you make $100000 in your job. So you have 100 grand and that comes out to $8300 roughly per month. So by you working that entire month I do a pretty darn good salary. Obviously $100000 a year you earned eighty three hundred dollars in pretax money right. That's a whole separate argument also. But you earn $8300. And just by virtue of being at this crossover point and your assets went up a significant amount that month you earn $9000 just from being there. So that's a cool concept. Is this crossover where your money earned more than you did.
networth, savings
1866 - 1874 Jonathan Mendonsa That is one that we kind of came up with on the fly with Joel so that one is super cool. And to me that would be a huge celebration wouldn't it.
1874 - 1884 Brad Barrett Yeah that really would be. And you know honestly I've never actually looked at that conceptually like my own investments I clearly have reached that point. But I wish that I would have went back.
1884 - 1897 Jonathan Mendonsa Exactly don't you wish you could recapture it. I mean that would be like highlighter Asterix bottle of wine making it rain from the ceiling. It's that cool. You need to hit the pause button and just focus on it and if you didn't realize that it's a milestone you just miss it right.
1897 - 1904 Brad Barrett Yeah how many Jonathan catchphrases can you put into one sentence myself been doing cartwheels.
1904 - 1939 Jonathan Mendonsa What are you a king. You know it is in context I should just take a second and say that Santos is giving us. I would imagine a pretty good natured ribbing about all the little sayings that we've developed over the last really 100 some odd hours that we spent talking into these microphones and it really is hilarious just the things that you say that you don't even realize that you're saying. But you say them a lot. Right. And I know a particular Brad you just have this really hilarious way of getting up on the soapbox and much of what comes out of your mouth is worthy of T-shirt. So it was a fun strand to read and just be a part of but don't be a lemming man. Don't be a lemming.
1939 - 1946 Brad Barrett I'm like yeah I love that thread that brought a permanent smile to my face for a day as people were chiming in on that. So yeah it's really cool.
1946 - 2018 Jonathan Mendonsa So the crossover point was the one that I really did want to take that few extra seconds just to highlight because I think that is just such a monumental moment for anyone that's tracking their progress. But the rest of these are really cool to it. And obviously your life is just continuing to get better and more secure. The power is continually shifting toward your end of the playing field. And as you get closer to FI essentially milestone number seven was flex F-I which is where you're at 20 times your annual spend essentially you could rely on the 5 percent rule at this point. The milestone number eight is actually the big one financial independence where you're at twenty five times your annual spending that's obviously the one that our show is based around that's the one that the FI community is based around. And then finally past that point you can make the case for milestone number nine which is fat FI. And this is what JL Collins pretty much considers a 100 percent thing this is 30 times your annual spending. It's as close to a sure thing as you will ever get quote unquote. And so that's more looking at like a 3 percent withdrawal rule. And basically again that concept of F-you money is following you along this path and as you get closer and closer to FI and then to Fat FI the powers continually shifting and along with power is freedom and along with freedom hopefully is the time to pursue happiness.
2018 - 2138 Brad Barrett And I actually wanted to go back to flex FI for a minute because I think Joel had some interesting input here and basically flex FI was when you're at FI as long as you're flexible with your spending going forward and this might even in like a catastrophic case mean going back to work or working some minor part time and realistically that's kind of tongue in cheek about catastrophic because many of us in FI are going to earn some income or do some kind of side. So that just naturally earns some money. So he had two interesting points here which was according to the Trinity Study even flex FI which is you know 20 times your annual spending or the five percent rule. This has an 82 percent chance of success even with no flexibility. Right. So take the flex out of Flex F-I and it still has an 82 percent chance of success. So I mean that's fantastic. You would take that if you walked into a casino and you wanted to gamble like obviously you would bet every single dollar you had to eternity if you had an 82 percent chance of succeeding every single time. So just in and of itself this is pretty pretty safe. And I think Joel would argue that to him the riskier proposition would be working an extra couple of years just to get closer to 90 percent 96 percent 99 percent. So you know I really like this concept of flex FI. And to quote Joel He said the worst case scenario is everybody else's every day scenario and that it's just so powerful like everybody else's everyday scenario is going to work. And if that's your absolute worst case scenario here in 82 percent chance with no flexibility of this succeeding and that's not to mention a couple of bucks here and there from a side hustle et cetera. I mean just in and of itself that raises your chance for maybe two way higher so the likelihood of you needing to go back to work in that worst case scenario is very slim to me. So Flex-Fi is a concept that I had never considered before. Hearing Joel talk about it and reading his article. But you know that might be a more realistic FI number for many people.
hustle, myfinumber
2138 - 2200 Jonathan Mendonsa Yeah absolutely. Absolutely. And the other half of that is what was inspiring to me about the way that Joe put these together was that because him and Alexis had spent so much time first slashing their expenses they didn't need to be a millionaire to hit these numbers every single one of the numbers they were dropping. It felt doable. It felt achievable. And I think it was just a great set of metrics to put out there to say this is a normal middle class family that's living a more optimized lifestyle and you can replicate this and you don't need to go live in a van down by the river right in order to achieve this. And you don't need to make the same choices that they're making but just by recognizing that this is a very normal couple that's just willing to live a slightly more optimized lifestyle and because they are they can reach FI in their 30s and they don't need to be a millionaire to do it and I just appreciate Joel taking time to share really their life with us for that for the period of time that we got to talk about it last week. So Brad I know that you and Laura had a conversation about this episode. What was your general thoughts about it.
2200 - 2219 Brad Barrett Yeah I mean I think the large part of our conversation was actually my one like flippant answer to the you know where am I on the milestones of FI. And I think a Laura is a private person and she doesn't ever love me talking about any of our financial stuff which you know probably to the detriment of the podcast. But that's not.
2219 - 2226 Jonathan Mendonsa No it's fine. It's a good thing that you didn't pick a podcast talking all about personal finance you know.
2226 - 2257 Brad Barrett But seriously I think I've responded. Fat fi and Laura's contention was like that's just incorrect because on multiple streams I guess my question was during the episode was does this count my businesses. Does this count my side hustle and I think then pretty much anybody could say they're at fat FI. Right. Like if their side hustles brought in more than their annual expenses and they thought it was going to last in perpetuity then you always would have enough money to cover it even if you didn't have the networth to sustain it. Right. I mean does that make sense.
hustle, networth
2257 - 2272 Jonathan Mendonsa Oh yeah it actually it does. I think there's some nuance there but I think it would heavily rely on just how we frame the conversation. But essentially what you're saying is if you're relying on your job to justify your number that's the opposite of what we're trying to achieve.
2272 - 2306 Brad Barrett Yeah. Then you don't have the number right. So I think that was why I asked you guys like Does the side hustle count. Because I think Laura's point was if my web sites imploded tomorrow where would we be right would we be a fat FI. No. We unquestionably would not be at fat FI and you know I did kind of try to specify that in the actual episode but she really wanted me to to emphasize this is we are definitely by no means at fat fi we are not even close to 30 times our annual spending. I suspect we're somewhere I think I said between flex FI and FI probably closer to flex FI.
2306 - 2377 Jonathan Mendonsa I wanted. I'm glad you clarified that. I don't think we should just leave it right there. I want to. Now you've gone back and put the huge Asterix beside. I want to come back to that because in our community we are constantly focusing on the side hustle and the side hustle in the construct we're talking about is in most cases something that you can get very excited about something that you are passionate about. And while I agree with the baseline the premise of what she's saying and in fact I think we've even said that in a prior episode that at some point your side hustle doesn't need to work forever because at some point you're using it as a vehicle again to get to your number faster which will then allow you if it were to implode you could just step away from it. I also think it's reasonable to say if you really if this is your absolute passion and you're tap dancing your way to work I don't think that you need to discount it completely. So it's kind of one of those. You can both be right at the same time type things and just and just use your own common sense to justify it. I think that maybe just from a mathematical perspective I agree with Laura. But from a psychological perspective with where you are and your middle game I think that you can totally say you're at fat FI right now because you're doing what you love you're able to earn an income from it and when you combine that with your investment vehicles you're great right.
2377 - 2384 Brad Barrett Yeah I like that. And I think we'll that'll help the martital smoothness if we if we say we're both right.
2384 - 2390 Jonathan Mendonsa Right wow we should write it. We're going to write a marital book next. I'm sure that's going to go over swimmingly well.
2390 - 2393 Brad Barrett The bozos from ChooseFI have.
2393 - 2401 Jonathan Mendonsa Grounded a dollar general near you.
2401 - 2415 Brad Barrett I think I like it. I think you know we're somewhere in that part of the continuum. And I think I think it evolves right. So I feel comfortable saying we're at flex FI or above and it it changes every day. Who the heck knows. Right.
2415 - 2459 Jonathan Mendonsa And what I love is that when the FI community starts talking about side hustles and don't get me wrong if you just want to learn how to create a business there are a lot of podcasts to choose from on how to how to start a business how to be an entrepreneur. You have several hundred if not thousand podcasts that you can choose from for how to start a business but when you're starting a side hustle from the FI community there's an end game. There's a strategy there. It's a vehicle that you can use to get to FI. And after you're at F-I you can make the choice to keep working if you love what you're doing that's great. I mean that's probably ideal but you don't have to because at some point you're the numbers just work for you and you can then make a choice. And I think that that focus allows us to have a different and a more nuanced conversation than just than the just pure business crowd.
2459 - 2521 Brad Barrett Yes I think to just kind of close this recap of the milestones. We would love your input and we expect to really refine these milestones and the checkpoints especially that Jonathan mentioned earlier in the episode I think I think these are important and I would love to have these as almost like like Jonathan said the little gamification of this entire FI journey right where we can all say like oh I'm at Milestone 4 or I'm at I just crossed off three checkpoints today like. I think that would be cool. And I think it would really add to the community. So we want and need your input on that so you know send us an e-mail or preferably go to the Facebook group again it's choose FI dot com slash Facebook to join and just give us some information I'm sure there are many threads on these milestones and on these checkpoints and you know let's kind of refine this and we'd love Heck if somebody wanted to take the lead on this and really help us out that would be awesome. But I think this will be a fun project for the next couple of months until we refine this down to something we're all pretty happy with.
2521 - 2770 Jonathan Mendonsa I love this conversation. To me it's a high level conversation it's not down in the weeds but it's one that pretty much anybody can appreciate. And then if they're willing or desiring to dig deeper into this stuff they can really grab hold of it and there are numbers that you can incorporate into your own life to find out exactly what you are. But one of the things that's very interesting to me is that Joel is going to be pulling the trigger on his FI date in January of 2018 and that is amazing first of all. So congratulations on that. It was a huge achievement and what a essentially a 180 yeah see what I did there 180 on your life and I'm very excited for you and for Alexis for what that's going to mean for your family. But it does present an extremely interesting case study for our audience because a lot of people feel and I'm going to throw Matt out there as someone that's very vocal about it that the stock market is overvalued and overpriced and that we might be approaching a downturn. And this brings up a very interesting problem to tackle for our community on sequence of return risk because although essentially across the board even Matt believes that you're 20 30 40 year prospects for returns are going to roughly approximate 8 percent in the short term the near 10 year future. Bogle himself is predicting much lower returns. And again that's fine. But for someone that's actually pulling the trigger now on FY the sequence of return risks basically mean that your first few years are the most important. And so if you pull your FI trigger and then immediately suffer maybe just stagnate years or even a loss in your income those disproportionately hurt your long term results. Now I'm not prepared to give you the answer to this today. But I think that it's important and that it's a fun conversation even if at some level it may be slightly depressing to talk about. I think it's a conversation that's worth having to explore. Drawdown strategy drawdown strategy when it's going right drawdown strategy when it's going wrong. And Joel has spent a lot of time looking at this so I have no doubt that he will be prepared to handle whatever the market throws at him and he'll have a strategy for that he'll have a quote unquote backup plan for his backup plan and he's going to be fine. Just because they've spent the time focusing on decreasing their expenses first. But I think following his journey as essentially the prototype of what Matt says you should be worried about what if you were to pull the trigger. Right. As the market were to take a downturn and you were to take the full brunt of this sequence of return risk what does that actually look like. And so that's one of the reasons that I am so excited and inspired to follow Joel's journey. And at the same time arm him and arm our community with what to do if that were to happen. So Brian I don't claim to be the experts on this. We have made it abundantly clear that we are on this journey with you. We're just talking about it a lot. Right. And so our goal is to find people that have already spent the time to come up with an intellectually honest answer without something to sell you but just want to share their information. We want to bring them on and have conversation learn from them and then figure out how to implement your own life. And so that's one of our goals. We have JL Collins coming up soon to talk about wealth allocation models. We have big Ern from early retirement now coming on to talk about sequence of return risk and all the technical details that frankly are so far above my head that I couldn't even pontificate on it without someone else's help. And then along with that then move into the next phase which is then maybe talking about drawdown strategies and I'm very much keeping Joel in mind for this because he is like me he's this eternal optimist and he's doing this right now. So it is the perfect case study we actually have somebody to track and he can share with us what he's doing what's working what's not working. It's just it's this perfect circle of he has information he's implementing. We go out we find new information and we just kind of keep coming back to it and throughout the process we all learn from it. We all learn what NOT to do. And we all hopefully get some extra tools that we can put in our belt. What if we find ourselves in a similar situation. You can only get better by being a part of this conversation. All right so let's go ahead and switch gears here for a second. I'm excited to play a voicemail that we got from Noah from money metagame dot com. He is our in-house expert on just FI hacks and life hacks. So I've got a voicemail that I'm going to go out and play here we've got a great tip for you.
families, stocks
2770 - 2877 Noah Hey everybody. This is Noah again from money metagame with this week's actionable life hack. Today we're going to take a second look at some recurring bills that most people don't think twice about your utilities from Nenergy coming into your home in the form of electricity and gas. There may be more than one provider in your area and these different providers often compete to get your business by offering incentives to switch which can often come in the form of lower rates or even signing bonuses such as gift cards or airline miles. This will vary pretty heavily by location. But one example I can give is Southwest Airlines. If you happen to live in Illinois Massachusetts Maryland New Jersey or Pennsylvania and aren't already using an NRG for your electricity you can get a 10000 point bonus for switching and an additional two points for each dollar you spend on electricity going forward. Southwest also has a similar deal with everything energy in Texas. Make sure you aren't overpaying for electricity just to earn some points. But it could end up being a win win of cheaper energy and free airline miles. Be sure to check out the different providers in your own area and see if they have any incentives to switch switch. It should be as simple as calling them up and telling them you'd like to switch. Nobody has to come to your house or anything like that. The second utility you might not have thought about is trash pickup including recycling compost and anything else you're putting in a bin to get picked up on a regular basis. Most areas charge depending on what size container you're using each week and sometimes the difference can be significant. If you haven't evaluated your trash needs lately or recently took up a life of minimalism that generates less waste. It might be time to re-evaluate if you happen to be putting out a half empty container to be picked up each week. There may be opportunity to save some serious money. So if you're looking for additional ways to trim down spending. Don't forget to take a second look at your utility bills. Aside from the standard recommendation of simply using less energy it may be possible to pay less and get a bonus for the energy you are using. In addition take a closer look at your trash pickup to see if you can save money by switching the size of the container. Thanks for listening and be sure to share your own tips for saving money on utilities in the Facebook group. See you there.
2877 - 2949 Brad Barrett Yeah that's a cool challenge from Noah to actually post these in the Facebook group right. I'm sure if Noah came up with those couple I'm sure there are many many other ones out there and I'd like to echo the garbage savings actually because this is something that I did a couple of years ago and it was slightly different from what Noah's describing but it was just basically calling for price comparisons. I just always had this sense that what we were paying for our garbage was just like ridiculous and astronomical and it just happened that when we moved into our neighborhood there were nine other houses on this block and all nine of them were using the same company. So I just kind of naively assumed that was the company. But luckily this other company came through and gave us a quote that was 70 percent off of what we were currently paying. And it wasn't like a gimmick or an introductory pricing it was just that was the price. So I was able to sign up for that and I'm still paying that exact amount to the dollar. Now I think it's probably four to five years later. So that's been a a big dollar savings for me. So just a real simple just like what you do with your auto insurance or your home insurance. Do it with your garbage pickup as well. I think there's a lot of room for savings there potentially.
insurance, savings
2949 - 3000 Jonathan Mendonsa And I view my waste collection as like the Sopranos of Richmond because they have just slowly crept in. and Owned my entire neighborhood. I think it's almost more pervasive than you think because every trash can that's out there has the sign for the service that you're using. And inevitably what happens when you move into a neighborhood you just look to see who your two neighbors are and I guess the one plus side of that is that you at least know when the trash needs to go out because even though it's been coming on the same day every single week for the last three years you still for whatever reason have to go out there and see when your neighbors put theirs out or you go put yours out as well. But the downside of that is consistently every six months they've raised my price like $2 and they're just counting on me to be passive about it. And then I heard that they got wind that another company was moving in. And so they said that if you called them that they would then reduce their prices just can't stand that. It just irritates me to my core that I have to make phone calls to keep my prices low but it's just the reality of the world we live in right.
3000 - 3002 Brad Barrett Yeah. I mean it is what it is unfortunately.
3002 - 3005 Jonathan Mendonsa They just taking advantage of lemmings.
3005 - 3041 Brad Barrett And it happens everybody and happened to me right for years so I just was too lazy just similar to what I mentioned a couple of weeks ago it was I was too lazy with my car insurance even though everybody knows right everybody says that you should call once a year once every 18 months to try to find better prices. I just didn't do that. I was just lazy and I'm kicking myself for now because my car insurance almost in half. So just make the call and that's that's where we think it right. Take action. You can actually save hundreds of dollars by just picking up the phone calling a couple of competitors and just see what's out there.
3041 - 3125 Jonathan Mendonsa And we know we've talked a little bit about the importance of getting like a good term life insurance policy as a way to protect your family. Frankly with as inexpensive as those are for those of you that have been procrastinating on it based on cost just making a few of these small little tweaks will more than offset the cost of this term life insurance policy that you know you need to get. So get off your butt go take action. Frugal one of the week Brad Michelle posted on our Facebook group find money that you didn't even know you were missing. Go to unclaimed dot org and we'll put a link to that in the shownotes. And searched by your state of residence and name to see if there are funds sitting in an account somewhere they belong to you. I just did this and I found two records for me from a stock I used to own and also to for my husband from a doctor's office. You file a claim and you get a check in the mail. She says let me know what you find. Let me know what you find that's freaking awesome that you can do that. So definitely worth checking out and there will be a link to that in the show notes. And if you want to join our Facebook group which now has 1500 members which are very active you can go to choose FI dot com slash Facebook. And there's a simple opt in form and you can join the community and it's really cool to see new people to FI that have found this concept frankly through our podcast or have found this concept very recently and have joined us on this group and to see their questions get answered. It reminds you of when you found that rat hole for the first time and just how it changes your entire perspective. Very very cool stuff. See the light bulb go off.
3125 - 3167 Brad Barrett And Vicki interface with group also had a frugal win of the week on magical ice coffee and I haven't looked into this yet but it sounds like something I'm interested in so I'll just read her post here. Another summer morning and it's 86 degrees at 8 am. I'd really love an ice coffee from my favorite coffee shop. We don't roll like that. Enter this recipe for magical coffee. It's so good so easy so perfect when you're trying to wrangle children at the breakfast table and don't even have time to make coffee. If I'm feeling particularly decadent I combine the coffee with freshly baked previously frozen chocolate croissant from Trader Joe's so yum I had to share. And yeah we're going to link to this recipe here in the shownotes as well. It looks pretty cool so I'm going to try this out for sure.
3167 - 3325 Jonathan Mendonsa And I want to come back and talk about just for a second about something we talked about last week when we kind of nailed profit centers and a victim of that conversation was gifts and cards. And Don pointed out to us. Maybe a nice medium for that. He says I only buy cards from the Dollar Tree for 50 cents each. It's crazy what they charge elsewhere. Even the stuff at Walmart isn't cheap. And then your brother Scott. He also made a post talking about a challenge that they do. They just basically go to the store and they actually give themself an award for picking out the craziest or the most absurd card and they don't even buy it. You just get an award for which one you would have gotten which is a nice little pivot on that. I thought that was hilarious. The other thing that was really cool is I'm not supposed to spend the money on someone and specifically someone pointed out that instead of spending money on a card they actually spent the money on the things to create the card. Now to me that's a completely different conversation and I didn't want to lump those in together because you're actually putting your time and your energy. That's an individual unique gift that you have used your creativity to make for someone that's powerful and you know spend three times as much money as you want on that that actually that's not a profit center. That is you putting your own creative talents and ability into someone and I just want I didn't want to lump those two together because I get that and that kind of also ties into the gifts. And Don said if you haven't I suggest reading the five love languages and he says I'm not going to try and summarize it. But some people are very gift based in the way that they show and receive love. And I think there are still ways to be aware of your spending and still do gifts rather than pouring tons of money into these occasions. But if your significant other is a gift person you may be heading down the wrong road and trying to eliminate gift giving entirely and we breezed through that and frankly we wanted to get that out there or just get the feedback on that. It's a conversation starter but I wanted to stress that I am not anti-gift and I don't think Brad is anti-gift what we really wanted to focus on was this sense of mandatory obligation to buy it for your 20 in-laws to buy it for all of your siblings and then not just their siblings but your second and third generation nieces and nephews and then your friends with their kids at turn 1 and 2 and 3 years old and the list never ends and that is specifically I think what was taking the heat of my ire if you will. And just talking to reeling that in every sense shape and form really analyzing why you're doing that. Let's now dial back in and talking about getting just a single gift for someone that shows that you care and love them and appreciate them. I am 100 percent for that. I've read that book. It's a phenomenal book. I'll link to it in the shownotes. I couldn't agree with what he said more. But I think that you can have those two conversations beside each other without saying that either of them is wrong and just look for the heart of what we are trying to get across.
3325 - 3437 Brad Barrett And I think what you said there about showing appreciation and showing you care like that's the point of gift giving. To me at least it's not like this obligation to buy useless trinkets for every single person in your life. Doesn't that devalue the gift. I mean that just seems so silly to me or even take it a step further. If you're married or have a significant other. I mean you have five to 10 of these obligatory pseudo holidays that quote unquote everybody says you have to buy gifts for and for many people they feel the need to shower the other person with hundreds of dollars worth of stuff. And like many of these people are living paycheck to paycheck or so stressed about money. But yet they just take it as a given. And what I would argue is don't take anything for a given and question everything and just think a little bit differently. So I'm not arguing to not buy presents or not show you care to anyone in your life. I mean like I'm not heartless I mean that's that's not how I roll. You know to quote from a minute ago. But like you have to show appreciation but do it in the right way. Show that you care and that that actually means something. I think Don's point about the five love languages I've also read this book and it was one of those kind of like eye opener type books so I highly highly recommend everybody grab it from your local library. It's a really interesting book and I had never considered what my quote unquote love language was or what Laura's was or even what my kids were in. It's funny because you can actually once you read this and you've internalized that as part of just the knowledge you have in life you see it come out like I see my older daughter. Hers is words of affirmation. And when you say something nice about her her eyes light up she's a nine year old kid. She has no idea that she's even reacting like that but I see it now. And that then factors on how I communicate with her. So again like Don said there's no way that I could summarize that book here. Nor do I have the expertise to do so but I would highly recommend everybody pick that up. It's one of those kind of game changing books.
3438 - 3520 Jonathan Mendonsa All right guys. Well it's time to bring this episode to a close. This upcoming Monday we have Dominic Quartuccio author of design your future. This episode is going to be a little bit of a departure from us but it's one that we're so incredibly excited to do. It came out phenomenally well and we think this story ties perfectly to the goal which we're trying to accomplish which is to help you pursue happiness. And unbelievably excited to share it with you this week. We also are recording with JL Collins and big Ern for early retirement now as I mentioned earlier those episodes are going to be game changers extremely even though we haven't even recorded it yet. We're extremely excited about getting a chance to sit down with him it's long overdue and we know that our community is excited about it as well. So really looking forward to that. Finally we finish every Friday round up by reading some feedback that we got from iTunes and we actually do this as this virtuous circle this ongoing thing where for every five written reviews that we get on iTunes we actually will do a drawing for a copy of JL Collins book the simple path to wealth. And if you want to be a part of that all you need to do when you've left an iTunes written review. Just send us a quick note telling us what screen name you put it under so that we can match it up and you just send that to feedback at ChooseFI dot com. And then every Friday on the Friday round up we will announce the winners and we do one book giveaway for every five written reviews. So Brad what do we have today.
3520 - 3550 Brad Barrett And today we have two winners and the first one is Mike and Mike said this is the best FI podcast. This is a fantastic podcast for those interested in learning how to put themselves in a better financial situation and get to early retirement. Brad and Jonathan attacked financial independence from every area increasing income frugality investing tax reduction and just making smart decisions having consistent episodes. Currently 2 per week is also a huge plus as it helps you stay focused on your goals. Keep up the great work Jonathan and Brad.
frugality, tax, testimonial
3550 - 3556 Jonathan Mendonsa Currently 2 per week are we going to go up to 3 per week Brad. Is there something you haven't told me.
3556 - 3560 Brad Barrett He's scaring us a little bit. I'm not sure if we can do 150 episode a year.
3560 - 3573 Jonathan Mendonsa All right. But you know what Josh from radicle personal finance does five a week John Lee do from E.ON fire does five a week how the heck but I don't think they're doing an hour and a half long episodes either so I think I think we'll just stick with the two for.
3573 - 3578 Brad Barrett Two sounds pretty good. But thanks for the review. Yeah the second winner is Luke.
3579 - 3613 Jonathan Mendonsa And Luke says you have found your home. I mean seriously who are the three people who do not leave five stars. Is it my favorite podcast and my go to blog. I have become actively engaged in the community that Brad and Jonathan have brought together. I long for Mondays and Fridays when episodes come out and I gain so much knowledge from each one. This is the community that I have longed for my whole life the fire is spreading. Thanks to Brad and Jonathan. Thank you so much luke. That's great feedback and thanks for standing up for us there was someone that basically said love everything about the show except for Brad and Jonathan if I could just sub them out for somebody else that would be great. I don't know what it is but I just want to punch him in the face.
3613 - 3614 Brad Barrett Yeah that was great always good feedback.
3614 - 3626 Jonathan Mendonsa Yeah. I was like Is there something I can do. Can I can I improve it now. No I'm pretty sure I just want to punch you in the face. OK. All right good. I'm good with that anyway this Fire is spreading my friends and we'll see you next time. As we continue to go down the road less traveled.

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