041R - Extreme Ownership

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Time Speaker Text Tags
1 - 8 Jonathan Mendonsa Guys congratulations you made it to the weekend. This is your Friday roundup. And as usual I have my co-host Brad here with me today. How you doing buddy.
8 - 10 Brad Barrett Yeah Jonathan during well. What's going on with you.
10 - 66 Jonathan Mendonsa I am Yeah I actually have a pretty cool story to share. So I went back to my parents house in Chesapeake Virginia this week and I took my wife to the library so you know we've talked on this show about how a library is kind of like the Fortress of Solitude for many people in the FI community and and I got this from Mr. 1500. I've started to want to see what the library looks like in different cities and this was actually my childhood library and I was excited to go back and check it out. And it's actually amazing and they've put a lot of time and energy into making this a place that you just want to go to. So I I took my wife there to kind of show her around. And I was remembering I don't know if you remember this but just the computer games in the 90s they were kind of my portal to educational computer type games. One of the ones that I remembered was where in the world was Carmen San Diego. And I couldn't help myself I actually went to the computer station and got logged in to see whether I could access that game now. So that game has not weathered time well which I guess is a bit ironic but it is no longer on the computer systems at the Chesapeake public library.
66 - 95 Brad Barrett That's hilarious. I have not thought of that where in the world is Carmen San Diego in probably near 20 years. But I think they actually had a TV show and I was just furiously I'm like typing this into google on PBS. Actually and I went to a taping of it in my school. I don't know if somehow we were involved in this where a couple of kids got to actually be the contestants on that show. So you actually went to a taping of that TV show which is a little known fact that it even existed but it was it was kind of cool.
95 - 101 Jonathan Mendonsa I remember that so it was like a live action show but then didn't it have like an animated component to it.
101 - 112 Brad Barrett Oh you're stretching my memory which is pretty terrible. But yeah I'd certainly live aspect looking at a picture of the cast. And yeah I haven't even thought of them in 20 years but this is hilarious.
112 - 166 Jonathan Mendonsa Well I do have something for you for those of you that are looking to get your fix of the old 90s computers games and they can be the educational ones like where in the world is Carmen Sandiego or really anything you can remember. You can go to a Web site called Classic reload dot com. Now this is amazing for those of you that have this nostalgia this fondness for those older type games you can't find any more like I don't know Oregon Trail or Kings Quest or where in time is Carmen San Diego basically anything that you can remember. You can go to classic reload dot com and you could actually play them from a web app and they're all completely free. So a fantastic frugal win of the year for those of you that just maybe you don't really like playing the new games as much or maybe you do but you still get a huge kick out of going back and checking out some of those old titles from your childhood. I spent about an hour just digging through that game and I did find Carmen Sandiego and we brought her to justice and then ended up having a great weekend with my family as well.
166 - 206 Brad Barrett Nice. Yeah. That sounds good. Cool cool. Can I like. I like the library hack. That's neat to just go visit other libraries. And yeah actually I had put a post on the Facebook group maybe about a week ago or so just basically asking for people's favorite books what have they've been reading recently and a bunch of people mention this fantasy novel called in lies of Locke le Mora. And I actually picked it up and I'm just flying through this thing and I'm up to page like five twenty five right now at seven hundred and change and already grab the books 2 and 3 in the series out. And yeah this is a phenomenal phenomenal book so I will put a link to it in the show notes. But yeah I highly recommend it.
206 - 317 Jonathan Mendonsa Aw cool man I'll definitely add that to the reading list. All right Brad let's go ahead and dive into the Monday episode. Talking about the path to FI in a high cost of living area. What I loved about this episode is how many obstacles in particular Paige had to her ability to hit FI in a short period of time. In particular we had this maybe average income or maybe even for the area that she's lived in maybe even a lower than average income. You have a late start to FI where you're discovering this concept and you have a pretty significant negative net worth approaching six figures in your 40s and having all of this in this extremely high cost of living area like Los Angeles. It gave us the almost borderline extreme case study of what is possible when you apply your mind to something and you're willing to make unconventional choices to achieve your goal. And I think the story that we talked about on Monday was one of optimism and it should be one that's encouraging for multiple reasons. The first reason is that in many cases if you're hearing this and you having your own set of obstacles that's keeping you from wanting to take action on this stuff. Think about what advantages you have over paige and the fact that this was still possible for her. Maybe you live in a low cost of living area that could be a possible advantage. Maybe you're finding this at a younger age. That would be an advantage for you. Maybe you're doing this in an environment where you have a higher income. That would be an advantage for you. Ultimately when we say it's just a function of the math that can be a very uplifting statement or a very demoralizing statement based on the math but it's all about determining what your framework is and then determining how you're going to attack this game, because ultimately it comes down to your savings rate. If your paycheck to paycheck something's going to have to give but you don't have to make the same choice that I would make. in that exact same circumstance or the same choice that Brad would make but you're going to have to change something if you're in a paycheck to paycheck lifestyle.
networth, savings
317 - 473 Brad Barrett And I think my most succinct summary of what Jonathan just said is it's easy to make excuses right. It's easy to make excuses why this can't work for you but if it worked for Paige, then it can almost by definition work for you. Because like Jonathan said she was starting out with all these what people would think of as negative tick marks against her. But in all likelihood your FI journey is slightly easier in one of those ways. So if paige that it and she is living what seems to be this wonderful life of abundance for her then you can definitely do this too. So it's easy to make excuses but we just have to stop and just say like what do we value and how serious are we about pursuing whatever life it is that we want to live. And yeah one thing that I definitely wanted to touch on especially after speaking with my wife Laura about the episode is this wasn't purely an episode about high cost of living areas. You know there were certainly a couple of things we touched on and I'll talk about that in a minute but this was as much an episode about extreme frugality as much an episode about reaching fi on a lower income. I mean Paige touch so many boxes I know when Jonathan titled The episode it was high cost of living. But this really was a little bit about everything in my opinion and I thought that was cool because everybody even if you're not in a high cost of living area you can get something out of paige and Sam's story. So I thought that provided a lot of value. But as far as the high cost of living aspects of it I would say there were a couple of things that jumped out to me so the first was obviously the cost of housing and apartments and basically how Paige lived for 20 years in one apartment that was basically a revolving door of roommates. But what it did was she had stability and she had a significantly defrayed costs of housing because she was sharing an apartment with in some cases between two and a handful of people in some cases. So I think that's one of the easiest ways when you're in a high cost of living area to cut down on your costs and reach FI faster. Just because you're a quote unquote adult you don't need to live alone in an apartment somewhere. Right. Like that's not a requirement. You can step out of your comfort zone and get roommates or get multiple roommates in some cases and take a place like Los Angeles and make it fairly inexpensive. I mean they were spending. Sam said $600 a month. And I think if my memory serves that I was maybe on the higher side of depending on the number of roommates so they were paying less than that in some cases which is remarkable.
frugality, housing
473 - 575 Jonathan Mendonsa Yeah I'm glad you brought back the attention to the title. Man I struggled with what to call that that episode because like you said it just hit every single box you could want. Honestly I probably should have called Extreme ownership. That was maybe even a better title for for that upset. Maybe that's what we could title this episode but it's this idea that not every choice that you make in this life is going to be an optimized choice. I mean certainly if Brad and I we're looking at this objectively without any emotion involved and Paige were to ask us how she could increase her savings rate we would tell her well you could just leave Los Angeles right. I mean you could find a lower cost of living area and based on the skill sets that you've already employed I mean your savings rate could jack up by another 25 percent very very easily. But Paige looked at the math and said From an emotional perspective I need roots. I want to put roots down so I'm not willing to change where I am geographically. This is where I'm going to be. But because I realize the value of the math and I'm going to take ownership for the fact that I'm not going to be as optimized as maybe I could be with respect to housing and rent versus buy and location. I'm going to need to now make adjustments in other areas of my life. And she's optimized so many other aspects that even with this short window this 10 year window that she has to hit FI by the year 2025 she can do it because while many of us are hemorrhaging money on things like cars and expensive cell phones and all the latest gadgets and going out to eat two or three times a week she is able to maintain a lifestyle for her that only costs without the house somewhere around $12000 a year and she's able to hit a 50 percent savings rate while making right around or maybe even a little less than $50000 and while living in an extremely expensive area of the country.
housing, savings
575 - 592 Brad Barrett And yeah I just wanted to touch on some of the other high cost of living hack's that Paige and Sam mentioned the first and most obvious is quote the alley will provide right like Jonathan how hilarious and perfect is that. As as as as a quote for choose FI.
592 - 624 Jonathan Mendonsa Yeah I love it. It will absolutely make it onto the Web site in various places. It'll probably end up making it into an app if that ever gets developed down the road. It's just a beautiful beautiful line. And you know I think it relies on this idea of radicle in-sourcing and so it appeals to me at multiple levels. But obviously if you and I occasionally tip toe into that we will accept what the Alley provide type mentality. They are like masters of it. You know they look at their geographic domain as a puzzle and how can I extract what we need from this in a way that doesn't deplete our budget.
624 - 765 Brad Barrett And clearly not everyone has an alley next to them and you know whether that kind of tongue in cheek or not is almost irrelevant. What you have in your community is a whole bunch of free stuff or very nearly free at garage sales. There's a Web site I know I've used called Freecycle Craigslist has free stuff. I mean there's a ton of different ways to get free items and not buy new stuff that is going to be virtually worthless if you go to any garage sale. I mean everything you buy from kids toys to clothes to just little knickknacks around the house. I mean they sell for a quarter or 50 cents or a dollar at a garage. I mean these things are basically all the items that you bought that you wasted money on. They're just worth nothing so therefore don't buy new. Even if you have to have this stuff and they said they aren't minimalist they have as Sam said this is reach peak crap right in the world and they have a whole lot of stuff. They were able to help one of their friends fill out an entire apartment just get the stuff from their own apartment. So you know these aren't minimalist by any means but they're not buying new items. And I think that's a really good strategy. You can find and it could be a fun game. Just go to different garage sales and buy things for a dollar. Like if you absolutely have to have new stuff. If you get that dopamine hit from from getting something new. Well buy it quote unquote new from a garage sale. That's fine. Or find different. Like I said Freecycle on your in your local community and see what you can get like that can be kind of a cool game. Just seeing like hey what's new this week what can I get that would add to my life. Like if you absolutely have to have that. I know personally I would rather have nothing in my house. But you know that's because I'm a pseudo aspiring minimalist. But another thing like Jonathan mentioned is this radical in-sourcing Sam has become an expert at fixing things right. And like he said something to the effect of I've not collected just objects but skills. Now he's really made himself a much more valuable person by watching YouTube by reading instruction manuals on how to fix things and just having this genuine curiosity to learn and to see how he can be frugal and pick up the skills of fixing different items that are going to... The Alley will provide him... know and like that's just a cool outlook on life.
765 - 862 Jonathan Mendonsa And the fact that he was able to leverage those skills against maybe other people's money in terms of finding this house and scooping it up as a deal and I got to think to myself that if you collect skills instead of stuff if you focus on that and you're able to acquire over a 10 to 20 year period you're able to accumulate hundreds if not thousands of new skills and I'm not talking about being a master craftsman but just a jack of all trades. You can change a light bulb. You can make minor electrical repairs. Realizing the fact that you don't know everything and that you have this next window of maybe 20 to 70 years to be good at anything that you want to be good at. It's just a matter of where you want to place your time. You can start developing interpersonal skills negotiation skills storytelling skills there's nothing better or more rewarding than being a good storyteller. And it's a skill that you can develop. Learning a new language cooking painting gardening woodworking fitness. I mean what's really cool when you view time as this playground and you get to spend your time learning any one of these different skills and doing whatever you find to be the most rewarding. That in and of itself becomes its own puzzle and it makes this life that we all have the opportunity to live potentially more enjoyable and personally Brad like all those are things that appeal to me at every level and when I talk about how I'm collecting skills those are the things that I'm working on. I would love to be a better storyteller. I can't tell you how many times I get started on a story and then realize I've just crashed and burned. And so I bail on it and I said and then I found $5 and then I just move on because I've given up on it. But storytelling is an art form that you can develop and it will just pay you dividends for the rest of your life if you can capture it.
Jonathan_Catchphrases, cooking, fitness, housing
862 - 879 Brad Barrett Yeah that's cool. I know personally I had no ability to tell jokes or stories or anything like that. So yeah I mean that's something that would appeal to me as just something that I have this limiting belief that I'm terrible at them. And yeah I mean if that's something I could take a course on or something I'd be open to. So yeah let me know Jonathan.
879 - 965 Jonathan Mendonsa If you're not afraid to learn new stuff and in fact you embrace the opportunity. There's zero chance that looking back you regret that process right. I mean it will add value to your life and I can't tell you how. But I can say that in my mind you'll be infinitely happier several years from now with the skills you have acquired over the purchase of the latest iPhone you know I think it's so funny you hear about all the hysteria with the latest iPhone being released and I'm just wondering when you look back at the iPhone that you purchased you know three or four years ago the iPhone 4 What value does the iPhone 4 the iPhone 5 have right now. And you know that if you advance a couple of years in the future when the iPhone c or whatever however they going to move on with the nomenclature comes out they are going to feel the exact same way. We are at maximum crap right. I mean when I drove down Midlothian turnpike the other day I saw eight car lots and I was thinking in my mind as I was doing that what Sam was saying about how there are more cars in California than there are people it can't be sustainable. And that's not a political statement it's just it's just a math game. It's not worth anything. It's depreciating into the ground. And if you put all of your money all of your assets into stuff that is turning to rust and dust that is a poor choice. But if you're putting your time energy and money into developing yourself I guess you're also turning to dust at some point. But the process will be more rewarding.
965 - 1126 Brad Barrett Yeah I mean you know listen nobody is going to ever complain about having more skills. So I think it's just a function of just trying to get a little bit better just in your life and that might just be reading a book learning about history learning just about anything. It doesn't have to be. I'm going to fix a $600 Dyson vacuum. It could be but it doesn't have to be right. There are so many things you can learn. And basically I think what Jonathan's just trying to say is don't be complacent just try to pick up these skills over years and decades that are just going to make you more valuable and more interesting person I think. I think there's nothing bad about that. So and just real quick the last thing I want to touch on about was similar to this about how many free things there are in a city and it's not just what the Alley is going to cough out but and Liz from frugal Woods mentioned that's on the episode way back when about Boston being a really inexpensive place to live if you had a FI mentality and Sam and Paige are saying that about L.A. and I think it would hold true for any big city is there are so many free ways to get entertainment concerts and art showings and whatnot museums that have free Fridays or whatever it may be. Right. If you just take a little reframe and just say OK what can I do this week. That's going to be fun and interesting and expand my horizons and is going to be free or close to free. I guarantee you you can find a couple of dozen things. It's just thinking outside the box just that little little bit. Just getting outside of your normal little life. And this is something that I fall down upon as well. We live in Richmond Virginia which all be it is is nowhere near Boston or in L.A. but there are plenty of things going on here. On any given weekend or given week festivals and art exhibits and whatnot concerts at the local universities and Laura I and my girls we do very few of them and that's just something that I don't know if we just get stuck in our own lives or we're not. But but we need to be better at that. And and really everybody out there can do something similar. There are so many free things in a city and don't have that limiting belief that oh because I live in a city it's expensive it's only expensive if you want it to be. It depends on how you frame the situation. All right. One of my big takeaways was actually how Sam's parents started him investing and how he said repeatedly that this just helped him cut that friction and that his advice was basically like parents should. I think he used the phrase should use force to get their kids started with investing that it just made this dramatic dramatic difference in his life. And Jonathan I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on this because I know this was the single biggest takeaway for the episode for me.
1126 - 1245 Jonathan Mendonsa Yeah I love this so my approach or my takeaway was a little bit different so when I heard the word force I didn't take it as more of this browbeating your child into submission of being on the fire path but rather I focused more on the part where you're just lowering the resistance to getting the process started you're making it easier. So for instance setting up a vanguard account or setting up some sort of investment vehicle or changing your withholdings with your employer or making any of those changes while they're not hard it is difficult to get started sometimes. You know sometimes you have to rely on other people like an H.R. department to help you. Sometimes it takes time where you have to go sit in the computer and create log ins and passwords and all these things. I mean realistically it's not more than a 30 minute process but there is some resistance to getting it actually started. And so this idea that you need to make it simple for your child so that it's basically already in place for them. And my mind was it was a lightbulb moment in and of itself and I find this as well not just with my life with my son who I want the best for but really just for my younger siblings who are kind of at this place 23 25 years old and I realized that in some cases they haven't gotten that investment account set up. And so I am actually finding myself forcing them to do this and like checking in with them on a weekly basis to make sure that they're taking action on this because when you don't do that when you just let it go five years can pass and you go back and you follow up with someone you say hey did you ever do that nah. I just never got around to it. That is what you see and that is just this passive grazin mentality taking the path of least resistance which is always to do nothing and nothing will leave you exactly where you are now. And when we talk about these relatively truncated timelines to financial independence five 10 15 years if five years have gone by and you haven't started anything. I mean you've extended your your FI working career by 25 to 30 percent and that's just a tragedy in my opinion especially if all it would've taken to get the ball rolling was for you to make that one thirty minute phone call.
1245 - 1418 Brad Barrett Yeah you have to take action. And that's what we focus on here with every episode. And I know that every single Friday I put a post on our Facebook group that winds up being the most popular post of the week with hundreds upon hundreds of comments just saying what was the one action you took this week to make your life better healthier wealthier et cetera. Like what did you actually do this week. Right. You had seven days you had 168 hours to do one thing right. In a perfect world you'd do multiple. But if you do one thing every single week and actually take action right just get off get off that couch and do something your life to Jonathan's point it's not going to be the same two five 10 years from now it's just not you if you just keep compounding these little changes. Like Jonathan said this friction anything you can do to cut the friction just will make it dramatically easier to make change. And clearly I'm not advocating like Jonathan was kind of saying about browbeating your kids into investing or making it into something miserable about you must pursue financial independence. It's nothing like that it's just the difference between some 23 year old college graduate investing and not investing. Could have been hey their parents open a vanguard account for them at 12. And every single time they got holiday money or birthday money it went in there and it just became a habit or just not right if the parents just didn't do that and the kids bought random shoes or clothes or whatever it may be and didn't invest. Well that's the difference between cutting that friction and not and just making it a habit and these kids would then just be used to doing that. And the accounts are already open. That's the biggest thing right. Like have you just made it. Oh hey I've got an extra $150 lying around. I'm going to put this into my Vanguard mutual fund right because it's a the accounts open. B It's a habit and C you know how to do it. It doesn't seem like this insurmountable task of OK I'm 23 I know I want to do this in a perfect world but I don't even know how to open an account. What kind of an account do I open. What investment do I put it in. How do I actually link up my bank account like there are all these little micro steps that if like if you let them overwhelm you it's going to seem overwhelming and you're going to sit on your couch and do nothing. But if you just break it down into simple tasks or if in this case your parents had broken it down for you and they helped you walk through this years and years ago. Well there's no friction anymore as I talk through this. It's cutting down on that friction but just breaking things down into little steps and just not making it overwhelming. None of those things are difficult. You can just call vanguards in this hypothetical you can call vanguards 800 number and they'll walk you through every single aspect of that. Or you could figure it out on your own just on their website but it's just a couple of simple little tasks. But if you let it overwhelm you're going to do nothing and then to Jonathan's point you'll be nowhere different ten years from now. But you have to take action.
1418 - 1477 Jonathan Mendonsa And practically speaking what this looks like Andrew shared with us on our Facebook page and he said this was his fire win the wife and I do a Monday night breakdown of the podcast tonight the kids were listening in and we had a nice talk about fully funding Roths how the math works over time and paying attention to our wants and needs. The four year old wanted to know about how good she was doing and we said she had a seven year headstart on her big sister toward fire. The 11 year old says Dad my investment jar is full. We need to go to the bank. She has two jars on our windowsill one says invest. The other says save for fun. The 11 year old gives me a squeeze and says Dad I love talking about money. Second generation fire is spreading my friends. That is the perfect family story. That's what forcing this looks like. It's this gentle approach where you're lowering the bar to entry. You're having these conversations early on and you're encouraging your kids in a way that is absolutely setting the path for their future self. And it's going to be a wonderful future. Alright Brad. So here's my challenge to you. My general question. Have you set up an investment account for your kids yet.
2ndgenfi, Jonathan_Catchphrases, families, roth
1477 - 1547 Brad Barrett Oh you put me on the spot here. I like it. I have indeed. So yes we had money just kind of sitting in a capital one online bank account and it's a couple of months now it's probably within the last. I think it's in 2017. So sometime in the last eight or nine months we did set up Vanguard accounts and we moved everything over to Vanguard So I think they certainly aren't at the point where they have enough money for VTSAX but they do have just the regular version of the Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund. So yeah as they save money they get presents and things like that we're going to start putting that into the account more regularly. But yeah this is something that I waited. My kids were I guess eight and five at the point so this is not something I jumped on immediately and you know that probably was silly. But but again it's you can't beat yourself up about past mistakes. You just make change and take action when you can. So yeah Jonathan we definitely did this and we already had 529 accounts for the kids set up. I think I had those set up by the time they were each a couple of months old. So I was a little bit better in that regard. So you have a basically a newborn son essentially a couple of months all that this point. Does he have a account set up.
529, indexfunds
1547 - 1609 Jonathan Mendonsa Well not yet but his dad did go ahead and reserve for him his own Gmail account under his name. So he's got his Gmail account locked down at the age of four months. I've got to look into setting up his vanguard account based on the outcome of this conversation. I'm literally going to hop off the phone and called Vanguard and set it up for my son as well. Think one of the questions that were in my mind may have been holding me back going back to that idea of resistance was that I wasn't sure of the tax implications of starting this investment of for my son because this won't be a Roth IRA because there's not going to be any income involved. This is going to be using just a regular taxable account which I think in our opinion with a long time horizon and no immediate expenditures coming up we would both agree that a taxable investment vehicle would be the best way to go. You could maybe make the case that a 529 might be an other way to do it but in the context of this conversation a taxable account is the way to go. And if we start putting his birthday presents and Christmas presents and different sorts of money in that account how is that going to be treated when it comes to tax time is that going to fall in my personal tax return.
529, ira, roth, tax
1609 - 1697 Brad Barrett Yeah that's a great question Jonathan. In looking this up the type of accounts that my kids have at Vanguard are called UTMA And I think basically that's just like a catchall for the type of account you have for minors. And and basically the parents are kind of code names on on these UTMA accounts so I think that's pretty standard. But when you call up vanguard they'll walk you through that and there's a 99 plus percent chance that that's the account type that you will open. And in doing some research on this basically if your kids have under one thousand fifty dollars in unearned income. OK so that's dividends interest capital gains distributions those type of things. Then there is no tax implication whatsoever. So at the end of the year as long as that 1099 comes in their social security number which it certainly should again and doing some research I saw instances where people were saying it came in their social and that just sounds like an error on how either the fund companies set it up or how you set it up but presumably it should come in the social of your son. And as long as the earned income is under $1050 and that was the most recent year that I I assume that will be indexed so who knows maybe it will be eleven hundred dollars for for this year future years so somewhere in that vicinity. But as long as it's under that amount there's no tax implication whatsoever it gets reported nowhere nowhere on your return. He doesn't have to file a return. So it's nothing at all to worry about.
socialsecurity, tax
1697 - 1738 Jonathan Mendonsa Perfect. OK so for me the takeaway on that would be basically this would not affect earnings so when we talk about maybe an account earning 8 percent year over year over time that isn't really what we're talking about here because you don't owe the taxes on that until you sell it. Based on what we've talked about in the past but what we're really talking about is dividend yield. So with regards to VTSAX that averages somewhere around like a 2 percent dividend. So the implications of that would be that splitting off a 2 percent dividend each year it could have up to $50000 in that account before you start owing taxes on that balance. If your son has $50000 in his account by the time he's in his teens I think they're headed in a pretty good direction.
indexfunds, tax
1738 - 1863 Brad Barrett Yeah to quote Jonathan. That's called winning. Right. So I wouldn't worry too much about it. If you have to pay a couple of dollars in tax on the tiny little dividends on the amount over 50000 that he or she have in their account I think you're doing OK. So yeah I wouldn't I wouldn't worry too much about that. All right Jonathan So going back to the paige and Sam episode. I was so intrigued by their housing situation and just some of the quotes that really jumped out to me where they bought a house that was just bad enough that the flippers don't want it. And I just thought for them who are these radical endorsers and people who can fix anything with YouTube and all this other knowledge that they've gleaned that they wanted to they really wanted to buy something that was a piece of junk more or less like I was just like a cool kind of rethink that like. Obviously they didn't want something that had major horrible structural issues that like they'd have to knock down the house. But just bad enough that the flippers want it and so that was kind of cool. Another quote that stuck out to me was Paige when she said about this house that quote This is a mistake but it's the right mistake for me. And I thought that was really important and it kind of touches into maybe what you said at the outset of this conversation about extreme ownership. Right. And like how we all need to take ownership over our decisions. And there are decisions that are maybe optimal for the fi community or if someone was doing everything quote unquote right that there is this path. But I reject that because it comes down to what works for your life. And Paige was very honest about that and very and she was very aware more than anything else that this is a mistake. Right. But it's the right mistake for me because she wanted to live in that house for years in the future even though it cost dramatically more per month than their existing living arrangements. It was this was something that they wanted to do. That's really powerful.
Guest_Catchphrases, housing, tax
1864 - 2041 Jonathan Mendonsa Yeah I think that's the biggest difference between the fi community and maybe our country at large is that while we may make some of the same decisions we do it with an understanding of how the math works and what we're going to do to compensate for where we may not be totally optimized in other areas. That's what I found so impressive about paige's story that obviously this house is a major line item which is wildly disproportionate to what she's spending in other areas. But she said exactly what you are pointing out. This is the right choice for me. And she owned that she realized the implications of that on her financial future. And then she compensated for and was totally willing to say even with that I'm OK with that decision but I'm going to make up for it by taking action in these other places. Very very encouraging. So we got a little feedback from some of our audience that said you know this was a little bit more extreme. I would be very interested to see what it would look like for someone that wasn't as frugal that wasn't on quite as low of a budget that maybe still had the high cost of living area and maybe also had kids in the picture as well. And while I'm certain that we can find an individual to meet all of that criteria and have them walk us through their story. Ultimately we all have the same levers available to us. And you're just going to have to select which ones you want to pull. And if you're not going to pull Geo arbitrage and you're not going to pull extreme frugality or just regular frugality at the most basic level you have to at bare minimum be willing to accept intentional living which is where you track your finances and you know where your money is going. And then if you have kids in the picture and you're not willing to take on roommates you're not willing to house hack you're not willing to make some of these more unconventional choices you have to then turn your interest to some of the other line items that you have control over. And maybe it's focusing on the cars maybe it's focusing on increasing income maybe it's focusing on just tax optimization. Maybe it's focusing on crushing your food budget. Ultimately there's no magic bullet out there. We're not going to find somebody that has is rubbing the genie in the bottle and they're winning the lottery ticket and that's a secret that you can replicate if it's a replicable secret. That means that it has to be a mundane choice but it's something that maybe you're optimizing just a little bit more than your neighbor. And so I think when you listen to paige's story you're not going to make the exact same choices that paige and Sam made. You may not be willing to bounce all around L.A. trying to always maintain your rent under that threshold but you are still subject to the same levers as the rest of us and you have to decide which ones you're going to pull. Is it going to be extreme frugality is going to increase your income. It doesn't matter you know to me personally which one you go with but it is very cool to see when you do come up with a plan that it works. And then Brad and I view our role as a chance to document those series of choices and present it to our audience for consumption so they can just think about it intellectually and decide whether or not it's something that they can adapt into their own lifestyle. That's really what it is. This is a cornucopia of options. Just take what works for you.
frugality, geoarbitrage, househacking, tax
2041 - 2146 Brad Barrett Yeah but you have to take something right. I think that's what you're saying kind of tongue in cheek about that. There's no magic genie coming you can come up with a litany of excuses for why what paige and Sam did won't work for you. You know I have kids I have whatever. And you know listen I make excuses about hey we couldn't ride a bike around town. Well of course we could we've just made the choice not to right. That's an excuse clearly. But I know intellectually that I could do that. I just choose not to. But we choose to do many of the levers of FI or many many things that will put us ahead on this path. So you can choose some things not choose others that that's perfectly within within your right. And that's what we talk about here at choose FI all the time you don't have to do everything. That we're not doctrinaire about anything to be a member of this community but you have to take action and you can't just list excuses. So like Jonathan's saying if you're major portions of your budget housing obviously and then like Page said food and transportation. Well if you're not willing to budge on any of those three just hypothetically like if you're not willing to budge on any of those three. Really not much is going to happen for you on your path to FI unless you find a way unless you spend all your time trying to increase your income. Right so that's a choice that you could make. You have to make choices. There's no doubt about it. And it's not my place to say you don't have to cut expenses one dollar I don't care if you have some path to double your income right or increase your income dramatically and you take that difference and then you save it. This just comes down to math. There's no magic There's no lying to yourself about it it's just math. So figure out whatever works for your life but you have to make some choices and take some action.
2146 - 2198 Jonathan Mendonsa Brad 100 percent agree with you. I do want to recycle this thought that we've talked about a while back with regards to when you're starting from scratch and you're trying to figure out how to tackle this do I increase my income or do I decrease my expenses. Just wanted to make this kind of obvious point but maybe one you haven't thought of in a while. When you decrease your expenses you're recapturing dollar for dollar every single amount that you can cut off your budget and then you can allocate that towards whatever you want you get 100 percent of those savings when you increase your income that income is going to be subject to our tax system and it's going to be taxed at a higher rate. And so you're not going to come back with every single dollar that you earn. Which is why. Sure. Increase your income or decrease your expenses. But when you focus at least to begin with on decreasing your expenses you're going to get maximum bang for your buck with regard to putting that towards achieving your financial independence.
savings, tax
2198 - 2278 Brad Barrett Yeah I totally hear you. And you know I don't get too hung up on the tax issues which is kind of ironic for CPA. I just I look at what I can control and the low hanging fruit. I agree with you 100 percent. Jonathan is that the low hanging fruit is cutting expenses. That's something that we can control tomorrow and you sometimes you generally can't control hey I'm going to make $80000 more next year. Right. That sounds great. We all want to make $80000 more next year. But you have there are a bunch of steps between here and there. But cutting your cell phone bill you can do that tomorrow cutting your cable you can do that tomorrow saving on going out to eat or having extravagant food bills like those are things you can change tomorrow. OK. So in the locus of control here you have a significant amount more control over your expenses. So I wholeheartedly agree with you Jonathan there. And not to mention like our FI number when we talk about our calculation it's based on your expenses. So if you can do anything you can to drive that number down from our 4 percent rule of thumb. It's just your expenses times 25. Right. So there's a huge difference between having $20000 in yearly expenses and having $80000 in your expenses that's something you can control on a much more immediate and significant base. So I wholeheartedly agree with you on that.
myfinumber, savings, tax
2278 - 2306 Jonathan Mendonsa Christine gave us some feedback on this episode. She said Thanks for the great episode today to paige and Sam you guys were articulate encouraging and very down to earth. I know there are a lot of movers and shakers in the fi community about side hustling and real estate investing but I like the focus on defining priorities living simply and frugal living. The Alley will provide will be an ongoing inside joke for my husband and I. That was hilarious. Definitely the most tweetable line we have had in the history of choose F-I.
2306 - 2378 Brad Barrett Yeah there's no question about it. And it's interesting like the more I look at some of these quotes that I jotted down like paige said something to the effect of finding things or buying used takes the worrying or perfection out of this decision making. That is again almost exactly what Liz from frugal had said on her episode which is you don't have to worry about maximizing every choice when the Alley provides. We can talk about about that quote forever it is the most tweetable quote because there is just so much that ties into that. And again I think not worrying about choices like the paradox of choice that you always hear about how it can be overwhelming to look at the hundred different options for buying a TV and all these different features. I just want a TV that works. And if you find it if you're a Sam and you find a TV in the alley that you can fix Well that's fine because you got it for $0 and you don't have to worry about having that remorse afterwards. Did I maximize everything. Did I find the best one the consumer reports said is the best TV for 2017 like you don't care at all. You're not putting that mental anguish into. Did I get the best out of this. No. It's a simpler look on life. And and that is what the alley provides them.
2378 - 2531 Jonathan Mendonsa Alright you guys so. Brad and I have been just discussing where does this Friday roundup go what do we want to accomplish. And ultimately it is a chance for us to bring in your question and your feedback and really just turn this into a conversation where we can get you involved. But aside from that bread I view choose F-I as a podcast that is about life optimization strategies what are you doing on the way to FI what are you going to do after FI it's the entire journey it's the entire spectrum. So an obvious extension to that would be that at some point you should spend at least a few minutes talking about life hacks. And so I have one that I wanted to share with you guys today. I think this has the ability depending on how you make many of your purchasing decisions to save you anywhere from 20 to 50 percent off what you might currently be spending online. I have used this to save literally thousands of dollars over the last several years on different purchases that I've made where I have ended up purchasing something new. So here's the Web site and it's called Camel camel camel dot com. Yes that is like the animal. And it's a third party website that piggybacks off of Amazon. And I should just mention for you guys that were in no way related to camel camel camel This is not an affiliate link or anything like that. That's just something that I found useful. It saved me a bunch of money and Brad was encouraging me to share it with you guys and what it allows you do you can create an account and then once you're there you can actually search for items that you want to find or purchase on Amazon.com. Now the beautiful thing about camel camel camel is that it gives you the ability to see all of the historic prices of the items so you actually know what is a good price for that item. As we talked about another context. MSRP means nothing right. That's just a number that set out there has nothing to do with what a good deal is if you see that something is 10 percent off. That doesn't mean it's a good deal. What you actually want is a number that's lower to what the rest of normal people are paying for that item. So if MSRP is $100 and it's almost always 10 percent off that means the real price is $90. So if you get it at $90 you're not getting a 10 percent off you're just getting it at basically the regular price. If it's 70 60 or $50 now you're talking about a deal. Camel Camel Camel actually let you see that. And even more importantly you can set price triggers that will send you an email when it hits a price that you are willing to spend on that object and you can see whether or not that price point is realistic based on the historical logs and graphs. So that's one that I have just fallen in love with and I use that reliably any time that I have a large purchase that I know I'm going to make but I don't care exactly when I purchase it. I just want to make sure I'm getting a good value on it. I'm getting that at a good price.
2531 - 2578 Brad Barrett All right so Jonathan you know I talk about being a valueist right and you know there are certain things we don't jump on any purchases unless it's absolutely essential that we get something immediately which is very rare. But you know there are things in the back of my mind that I would love to purchase. In theory if the price was right or if I knew that I was getting something that equaled the value that I had him in my head for what it should cost. And an example is I know I talk endlessly about this board game ticket to ride but my family is obsessed with this game. We probably play two hours a day on weekends and sometimes even on on school nights we play it. So they have a bunch of expansion sets but the prices are all over the board. And I just can't get a grasp on them. So how can I use this. camel camel camel website to figure out what I should pay for each of these expansions.
families, valuist
2578 - 2727 Jonathan Mendonsa Yes perfect. Give me a case study. OK so ticket to ride. Let's start by just seeing what I guess your ticket price on this item would be. So if you're paying full retail. Usually Barnes and Noble that's the metric for the most you'll possibly pay for an item. Right now I just looked on the Web site it's $49 and 95 cents. So that is just the ticket price. Now if you go to Amazon you can see well what is the price here. Now as I'm looking at it right now the price for this game is $32 and 33 cents. You could see how one would say to himself wow I'm getting this great deal because Barnes Noble is charging this unrealistic price for this item. It's on Amazon. It's 33 bucks. I should just go in and pull the trigger on this. That's where most people stop. But that still doesn't tell you a whole lot. How does that relate to the what the price is normally on Amazon. And so this next tip can literally save you thousands of dollars over future years. And so what you do is just take the URL so go up to the bar at the top and screen grab the URL or conversely just make a note of whatever it is you're looking for and go over to camel camel camel dot com and copy in the name of the game or the URL for the item and then submit that it will give you the historic graphs over the last really it can give it to you over the last seven years or whenever that product was released you can also filter it down for the last year. I don't think there's really much value to know what was the cost overall times you really want to know. Over the course of a 12 month period of time what's a realistic price point that you could get it for. And when I look on there now I can see some really good information and it looks like it normally hovers in between $40 and right around $32. So anything in there is going to be kind of the average price if you will. Having said that you can see that at three or four points of the year it actually goes all the way down to $23. So if you're not in a rush to get this and you're like a board game fanatic like I am and you know there some board you want to get but you don't want to pay top dollar and you don't really care when they arrive you just want to know that when you get it you get a good value on them. Then in that case you are just an account you type in the price trigger you want which in this case I would say would probably be right around $24 that would be the price trigger I would set the alert for put in your e-mail address and then it will send you an e-mail. The moment it hits that price point and you can pull the trigger on it immediately. And that is how I have purchased probably close to this is my this is my embarrassing frugal fail if you will but I purchased probably close to 60 or 70 board games for maybe 30 percent of what I would have paid at Barnes and Nobles.
2727 - 2744 Brad Barrett Wow. And that is pretty great. And yeah this is. That's cool. I like this. I'm going to set up an account and put some triggers in here. There's I guess there's no downside to it right. You just get an e-mail when something hits and then you make the decision to buy or not buy at that point. But but at least you have the information. Yeah I like them.
2744 - 2834 Jonathan Mendonsa Another way you could use this would be for a baby registry or wedding registry where you know it's coming like a year ahead of time. You don't care when you purchase the items but you just have a list of things that you're going to get and you're going to get them slowly. It was actually a little bit painful for me to do this. The only problem of doing the baby registry and the wedding registry is that other people are often buying these items so if you scoop it up you know even if you're getting that 30 percent you're robbing someone else a chance of them getting it for you. But you know if you're self-funding a lot of the stuff that would definitely be the way to do it and again that with the baby presents those have massive markups on them and you can commonly save 30 to 60 percent on what you'd pay if you just you know either walked into a store just went straight on to Amazon without checking so yeah. I almost always start at Camel camel camel bread and I have just been talking back and forth and we've just realized how many of these types of little hacks and tips and tricks that we have kind of latched on to and almost take for granted. And so we're going to try to carve out a little space on a few of the different Friday roundups to kind of drop release these general ideas that hopefully will help you out and make your life easier and less expensive along the way. All right guys so we want to take this moment to actually give a shout out to Don that announced on our Facebook group that he has officially hit his FI number he is now FI. So I said Don just go ahead and call in a line man let us live this with you because it's nice to have some encouragement along the way. This is not a quick path. And when our community individually crosses the line it gives us motivation to keep going strong. And thankfully for us he took me up on my offer.
2834 - 2853 Don - (voicemail contributor) Hey guys Don here just wanted to call in and let you know that I reached my F-I number on Monday. Thanks for all the great content you've been putting out and for helping to keep the fire burning. It's been great to have this community to share ideas and successes with. I look forward to logging into Facebook and seeing what new ideas people have every day. I've even managed to cut my expenses this year by another 10 percent. With All the great encouragement. Keep up the great work.
2853 - 2901 Jonathan Mendonsa So Don I just wanted to take a second and just say congratulations. That's such a huge accomplishment. And just wanted to publicly congratulate you on the show. But aside from that Brad It strikes me that in our community and our Facebook community we have approaching roughly 4000 people in that group right now. And when you kind of do a survey of their general timelines 30 to 60 percent of them are going to be at FI within the next five to 10 years which is astonishing. That's absolutely astonishing. And what that means is I think at this point we've shown that the show has some longevity we will be here at least for the next several years doing this week after week being here to kind of encourage you on this journey and provide a platform to share your wins and successes your life optimization strategies along the way. But there's a good chance that we will be here to walk a large percentage of our community across the FI line.
2901 - 2915 Brad Barrett Yeah that is that's a cool thought to think that we'll be here and and it's not just going to be Don with this amazing story but every week there could be a dozen people I mean who the heck know. Right. Five to seven years from now I mean that's a really really cool thought.
2915 - 3039 Jonathan Mendonsa And I just hope that at some point we'll get everything in place so you will be able to do maybe even a live. I choose FI you know the whole scream the whole shout because this is not instant gratification. This is the opposite of instant gratification. This is not get rich quickly. This is Get Rich Slowly but it's replicable. Everyone can do this. It's achievable it's just a function of the math. And when you actually realize I hit this number it's great to be debt free and I get this excitement in my soul when I hear people be able to call in and do that. I'm debt free scream on another show. But ultimately once you get to that point that's not the finish line. That's the beginning. The financial freedom clock has just started. FI is the culmination of making the right choice month after month year after year it's not a sprint it's a marathon. And when you get to that number it deserves the public recognition because it's such a monumental feat and I don't think that there's been a platform to really publicly recognize that it's not just the bloggers that are hitting fi right. It's not just the people that are publicly writing about it. This is the untold story of the stealth wealth community. And just congratulations Don we're unbelievably thrilled that you shared that with us. All right guys. So Brad and I are fortunate enough to have big ern lent his expertise as an in-house expert dealing with all the technical details of the math and Paige actually reference big ern as someone that she had really relied on and his presentation of how the math actually works and how you can have confidence that the math is really one of the things that allowed her to feel more secure in her plan. And we brought on the show several weeks ago to talk about sequence of return risk and at the end of the interview we just barely touched on the idea of what you would call a glide path which is a technique to dynamically change your allocation as you start drawing down on your nest egg. And Ern was still in the progress of writing those two articles and I believe he just released them and there and their part 18 19 and 20 of his safe withdrawal rate series which you should definitely check out. But he left us a voicemail which we're going to play for you now which will give you just a taste of how valuable that information actually is once you understand it.
blogger, debt
3039 - 3234 Big Ern Hi Jonathan and Brad. This is Ern. I wanted to respond to the question that you raised in the week 35 round up how do you mitigate sequence of return risk as a retiree. And again so this is about mitigating sequence of return risk because you can't completely avoid it. You can only find ways to soften the effect of sequence of return risk. One lever you can use to mitigate sequence of return risk would be to adjust the stock bond allocation in retirement. You can start with a higher than normal bond allocation and you can walk that bond allocation down over time to your target. Here's an example. Imagine you start with 70 percent stocks 30 percent bonds and you reduce your bond percentage by two percentage points every year until you reach 80 20. That means that during the first five years of your retirement you take most of your withdrawals out of your bond portfolio. So if there is a drawdown in equities you don't have to sell your equity portfolio at rock bottom prices and you avoid some of the sequence risk. I like this method because it's a nice compromise. You have some added security early on but you don't keep the bond share that high forever. Remember to make it through a 40 50 or even 60 year retirement you need the power of high equity expected returns. So you don't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater. If you were to keep the bond share too high forever you will lower the risk of drawdowns early on but you also risk running out of money over the long term. On the other hand this dynamic bond share threads the needle and gives you some protection early on but also generates enough expected return. In the long run the second lever is the safe withdrawal rate. Remember I propose to adjust the withdrawal rate in response to how expensive or inexpensive equities are when you retire and equities are expensive. You start with a more modest initial withdrawal rate. Right now I would propose something like 3.5 percent based on how high the Shiller Cape ratio is. Now suppose that one year or two years into your retirement equities take a nosedive the Cape ratio fall down to 20 from currently 30. So equities again appear a lot cheaper. That means you probably withdraw a bit more maybe 4 percent or 4.2 percent. And it may be a higher rate but it's multiplied by a much lower portfolio value so the net effect is that you still withdraw less. But the drop in your withdrawal amount is cushioned because you increase the rate. What I like about withdrawal rates that are based on the Cape ratio is that the fluctuations in withdrawals are a lot more muted than what you would get with the BOGO heads VPW formula. I did a case study about this in part 11 of my series where I compare these different dynamic withdrawn rules and I found that the Cape based rules perform very well in these volatile environments. So these are two ways to mitigate sequence of return risk. I hope that answers your questions and best of luck.
3234 - 3344 Jonathan Mendonsa That is a wonderful walk there so Brad hopefully we can link to that in the shownotes. The great thing about the way he does it is it's still accessible for the lay person like me someone that wants something that's very simple and understandable. It's still going to be accessible for you. He does a great job of breaking it down so you can walk through his logical thought progression and it pairs very nicely with the JL Collins stock series so definitely check out both of those. And for those of you that maybe this is your first Friday round up and you're thinking to yourself what the heck just happened. To give you some context this show does kind of build. And so we don't completely throw you under the bus here definitely first go start with the stock series. That would be very useful for you. That was episode 19 and then we brought JL Collins back on that was episode 34. And then you need to listen to our sequence of return risk episode with big Ern from early retirement now that was episode 35. So if this was just totally Greek to you 19 34 and 35 should help put all of this in context and Ern thank you so much for sharing this with us. Very very helpful to our audience at large. All right guys huge announcement today. We have our winner for the side hustle contest and it was unbearably close to watch. The voting was open from last Friday to Monday night. It came down to honestly just a handful of votes. But we do have a winner and that winter is talis and talis is going to be creating a business offering dance classes to people that have Parkinson's disease and there's been a lot of science to show that those two go hand-in-hand and we cannot wait to bring her on the show were actually this is Tuesday that we're recording this morning. We're going to be talking with Alan Donegan tomorrow and actually getting his ideas on what the next step is and how to best present this information to you guys and to really help Talis with this project but just wanted to let you guys know this has been an ongoing process for the last month. We do have a winner and we cannot wait to go on this journey with you.
3344 - 3358 Brad Barrett Yes so a huge thank you to everyone who voted. Everyone who is involved in this and of course a big congratulations to Tallas and you. Thank you to everyone who submitted and we really look forward to bringing this entire story to you over the next couple of years.
3358 - 3379 Jonathan Mendonsa Alright you guys so I have let my voicemail I want to play for you. It kind of ties together both what Sam was talking about and the power of collecting skills and also the idea of building multiple income streams and bringing together skill sets that while they may not seem related if you're willing to just be a little bit creative about it and you see an unmet need you can step in and change the game. So let me go and play this for you.
3379 - 3457 Dave - (voicemail contributor) Hello Jonathan and Brad. This is Dave from beautiful Lake Tahoe California. I'm a realtor and have been for about 12 years. About six years ago when agents started to use professional photos I got frustrated with the cost and slow turnaround time that was being offered by the photographers at that point. I decided to try to do some research and see what kind of camera and editing techniques would be necessary to be able to do my own photos and have them look professional. At first I was pretty terrible at it. I bought a cheap DSLR camera and learned some basic editing techniques. I was doing my own photos and a few associates asked me to do theirs. Fast forward six years. Much better cameras and very fine tuned editing skills and I now work for over 100 local agents. This side hustle is now my primary job bringing in about 80 to 90 K per year. Although I still do real estate sales I don't rely on it anymore. This was a really good lesson for me about recognizing unmet need and building. I have a photographer that works for me now as I'm trying to build myself some more free time as I approach FI probably 10 more years. I hope to have more photographers and not have so much of the daily work anymore. The biggest key for me in this endeavor was keeping my costs low. I was entirely self-taught by the power of YouTube. I really believe that a person can learn how to do almost anything for free online if you spend enough time on it. I hope this is helpful. Thanks for what you guys do. I'm really grateful to have found that ChooseFI podcast.
3457 - 3497 Jonathan Mendonsa So Brad. Isn't this exactly what we've been talking about. You see an unmet need. You've started collecting these somewhat random skills and you just kind of miss this trial by fire. You're willing to stretch yourself put yourself in a completely new set of circumstances but because you're applying these skills directly I'm sure that learning curve is completely shortened and because you're not just learning this in a classroom setting where it's all didactic and it's just someone talking at you they say that the best way to learn a new language is to go to the country and immerse yourself in it. This is a skill immersion you know. That's what this is. You go from maybe having to learn this over a four year period or more to just you bootstrap it and you learn the skill set within a six month period of time and then you apply it immediately.
3497 - 3522 Brad Barrett I love that Dave found this need right and filled it by just picking up these skills. That's absolutely brilliant. And then I also love that he has a long term plan to essentially be the CEO of this business as opposed to just being the worker right. Like he sees a need where he can potentially get other people to work under him and then he can just direct the business. So I love not only in the short term thinking about the long term thinking as well.
3522 - 3561 Jonathan Mendonsa All right guys if you're getting value from the show please consider leaving us an iTunes review. Just go to choose FI dot com slash iTunes and as you guys know by now we do a drawing for a book that we found useful. Currently we're doing JL Collins book the simple path to wealth and Dominic Quartuccio's book design your future. Brad do we want to introduce a new book. I just got done reading tools of titans by Tim Ferriss and my mind was blown. It's the tactics routines and habits of billionaires icons of world class performers. It's a really thick book but I was just shocked at how accessible it was. And I was thinking how about for the next two weeks what if we added that one in and we gave people the opportunity to win a copy of that book instead. Will you be down for that.
3561 - 3583 Brad Barrett Yeah. Now that's a great idea. I absolutely love that book. I mean yeah. TIM basically distilled hundreds of podcasts interviews into the most actionable tips you could imagine. So I mean it's quite literally thousands of hours of audio put into a 600 page book and it's amazing. I mean you could take away pay three hundred things that you could take action on in your life. So yeah I love it.
3583 - 3614 Jonathan Mendonsa It's kind of like if you took a hot seat for everybody that we'd done up at this point except you brought into it people like Arnold Schwarzenegger and you just turn that into a book that's basically what it is. But it's really good. Why are you guys so for the next couple of weeks we're going to do that. We're going to do one book for every five written reviews of you get all you've got to do to enter that drawing. Just go to choose FI dot com slash iTunes follow the instructions there leave us a short written review and then just send us an e-mail to feedback at Choose FI dot com. Letting us know that you've left a review and we will. Absolutely. enter you in that drawing. So Brad how many winners do we have today.
3614 - 3634 Brad Barrett Our Jonathan we have one winner today and the winner is Luke and Luke said informative and motivating enough info to help you take tangible action steps while entertaining and real life examples help give you a boost in motivation to realize you can do this too. Thanks for the high quality podcast. Keep it up.
3634 - 3638 Jonathan Mendonsa Thank you so much for the review. Luke we absolutely appreciate that feedback and thank you for being a part.

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