Transcripts Including Tag: 2ndgenfi

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035: Sequence of Return Risk ERN Can we just pause for just a second. Like your heart blood of the FI community this is what gaming things out actually looks like while everybody else is racking up 40 to 60 grand. of student loans the second gen FI pitch. Absolutely has to be. Yeah go get all the student loans but then figure out how to do it for free and then invest it. Or rather go get all the scholarships but then figure out how to do it for free and then invest it.
035R: 4 Percent Rule The Friday Roundup And Danielle says all fired up. I stumbled on to choose FI a few months ago after delving deeper into the personal finance of financial independence realms. I've listened to every episode more than once since then. I'm still working on paying off student loans. But this podcast not only provides entertainment but it also provides actionable items that I can implement even while paying off debt. It has also energized me to figure out how to readjust my budget solidify the concept of travel hacking and pushed me to roll all of my Roth IRA 403 B funds into the institutional version of VTSAX.. My only request is to hear from people who are working towards or have achieved FI who aren't married or were earning less than six figures. This is a phenomenal podcast and is the only one I specifically make time to listen to when new episodes air. Highly recommend. Thank you Danielle and we will try to act on those suggestions. It's certainly one of our spoken goals has been to explore this amazing journey from all the different ways that people tackle it and there are an infinite number of ways to tackle this. This ultimate goal of financial independence and we want to get a chance to do it really for every scenario. Whether or not you're finding this journey for the first time in your 50s or whether or not you're 16 years old and your second gen fi and you want to see how early you can push this saying get this thing rolling. We want to find and explore ways to make this work for you and then present those on the show. This is by the fire community for the fire community and let me just finish by saying for a very very short period of time. JL Collins actually reached out to us and he just released his audio book the simple path to wealth and so is the audio book version of the simple path to wealth. He has given me just a few downloads available for that. So for the next couple of weeks if that is something that if you heard your name today and you'd be interested in getting a audio book version of the simple path to wealth as opposed to the written book just let us know in your email and we can hook you up for a very short period of time. So thanks to JL for making that possible for us. The fire is spreading my friends and we'll see you next time as we continue to go down the road less traveled.
039: Millennial Path to FI Ok guys welcome back for another episode of the Choose FI radio podcast. Today I have a story that I'm very excited to get a chance to do. We brought Gwen in from fiery millennials. And today we're going to really try to focus on I guess what you could call the millennial path to FI. If I were going to look at my own story and timeline we're kind of me and Brad to a lesser degree or kind of in this transitional generation where a lot of this technology was really coming to the forefront I would say that right behind us though is the pure millennial generation that maybe grew up to some degree with iPads in their hands and had access to all this technology earlier and really new blogs from from the very beginning blogs to some degree were just arriving when we were coming through the ranks. But at this point for the millennial generation blogs had been here for a while they've been developed and they had access to a lot of this information. Now I would not say that our guest today Gwen is second generation fire because she did not have a parent mentoring her through this process she had to figure it out. But she did have the benefit of seeing other people do it first and that's why this story is really cool. What if you aren't really given any advantages in life except that you are willing to learn everything that you didn't know and then actually do it. Be willing to push yourself stretch yourself and actually take action no matter what it took and how far it took you outside of your comfort zone.
039: Millennial Path to FI I mean just as an aside I think that when you know that other people are doing it and you're willing to not do what our culture tells you to do which is to take out as much as you need in student loans because you're going to get a job and you can pay it back over 25 years when you decide that no that is not acceptable and I need to find other people and see what they have done. This is what I would want for my second generation FI. I would coach them more towards this path. Are you on the same page.
039: Millennial Path to FI So you're 23 years old. You've graduated college you've done what a lot of us never considered and did get the full ride got the full ride two different ways. Did the internship programs you've come out you've got your job you have a $10000 net worth at this point and you're starting way way ahead of most of us of what we would have even have considered possible. And I think that there's nothing that I've heard so far that isn't something that anybody that's in our community second generation FI someone that's hearing this stuff while they're in high school you certainly don't need to be given a silver spoon in order to get the sorts of results right.
039R: Cruise Control But on a serious note I do think there's a lot of value to you just added with that. I think so many of us try to get the absolute perfect score and we miss that point of diminishing returns and by focusing on what you actually need do that get that get what you need and then figure out what's the next thing and instead of putting all your emphasis on this on on trying to get this squeeze this extra a few percentage points out do what you need to do and then be awesome at something else as well that will also help you hit your goal hit your goal from multiple angles instead of trying to be in the top point 0 1 percent of any one thing and sacrificing everything else to achieve that goal. Yada yada yada. So today really where we wanted the land is we wanted to discuss this concept of this cruise control path to fi and we wanted to place a lot of emphasis on this idea of if you do just a few things right early on it sets the path for the next 20 30 40 years. I mean it's remarkable. We love talking about concepts principles theories but we have found that some of the more powerful segments in our show has been actually walking you through the math and as strange as that sounds because numbers really historically speaking don't work well on a podcast. But when they're big enough they can be very rewarding. And so this is a fun number to illustrate and a fun concept to illustrate. So let's imagine that the second generation Fi case study is able to graduate college with no debt. And maybe they even come out with a positive net worth. But they follow some of the principles and the guidelines that we've explored over the last several episodes and we'll continue to explore and they're able to start their financial freedom clock as soon as they graduate college and immediately they start maxing out their 401K if that person maxes out their 401K from the age of 22 to 32 and then they use this cruise control principle which says once you get enough in your account early on you can just stop. Now this is kind of more of a theoretical concept because it's hard for me to imagine somebody that goes from saving this kind of money to just completely walking away from the path altogether. But I think it'll still allow us to illustrate the point. This person maxes out those 401ks from 22 to 32 and then they just either exit the workforce or they stop saving a dime. They just live paycheck to paycheck for the rest of their working career for the age of 32 all the way up to 60. Brad I know you went ahead and ran the math on that. How much would that person have waiting for them in their 401k at the age of 60.
039R: Cruise Control Yes so at 32 they had it it looks like about $282000 which is certainly a nice number. But keep in mind that includes the 180000 of contributions. Right. So that 180 that they've contributed an $18000 yearly increments turned into 281 by the time they're 32 which is phenomenal. Not many 32 year olds have a $282000 401K but that's not that mind spinning number. What actually is the magic is that money just sitting there from 32 turning from 282000 all the way up to 2.4 million at the age of 60. And that's with zero dollars of future contributions. So you know that should for anybody out there in the audience that it should really get your mind spinning about just the power of time and the power of compounding. So Jonathan always talks about second generation fire. This is the perfect example of get your kids started as early as humanly possible. Those years you can't get them back.
039R: Cruise Control Yeah and it's even more than that like once you understand the power of this. I think it changes your strategy overall. Now I know there are so many people out there that are thinking to themselves Wow I would really like to be a stay at home mom or dad at some point and the conflict that you feel when you say Well that is going to destroy our savings rate and we can never go back. None of us can go back but when we're mentoring our kids we're mentoring the next generation with this information. I think it does move the playing field and I think in America we put so much emphasis on the three or four career paths that we feel that you can get in order to get the six figure income so we know that you'll be set. But in many cases those career paths come with eight to 12 years of school where you're tied down and when you come out you have six figures of student loan debt that you have to pay off. And when you pay down that student loan debt you're stuck on that hamster well into your mid-thirties before you ever get that financial freedom clock going and you're actually able to start. But if we start talking about life in terms of the cruise control path to FI it changes everything. You don't need nearly as much. All you need to do is focus on the savings rate get that savings rate as high as possible as early as possible. Get that financial freedom clock started as quickly as possible. And if you don't start out life by graduating school at the age of 28 to 32 and you don't start out life with six figures of debt and you're able to reclaim your 20s so that's not the lost decade that it was for me and it was for so many other people. If you're actually able to use your 20s as this powerful lever that you can get this little mini nest egg build up and then for whatever reason you have to bail on the workforce or you have to you're not able to put that money aside for the rest of time if you're able to do it for a relatively short window time will take care of the rest for you. So time is a pillar of fire. You can't put enough emphasis on this and how many people or how many personal stories do I know where an individual was willing to go. Let's say they I mean let's just use the prototypical example let's say they went to med school or pharmacy school let's say after that they came out with $160000 the debt. By the time they ended up paying off their loans because they were very aggressive they're in their mid 30s and at that point they're just burned out. They're totally 100 percent burnt out. This avoids all that. This allows you to get all that free of all that flexibility all of that power. Move it to your side of the ledger. Earlier in life so you get to make decisions that are in your best interest in your 30s and 40s and I think if we can just use this as a general framework it will allow us to create a strategy that has a lot more options. You don't need that you no longer have to pick one or two or three careers that you think are going to get you to the outcome you want but rather you get to do almost anything you want because in the background all you need to have are just a few of these principles locked down.
039R: Cruise Control And I think the other half of this is you know we constantly talk about second generation FI. But the reason this story is so powerful is because we as we've said over and over again we have two audiences for this. Yes. We have the decisions that we would like for you to be able to make right away but we're also always thinking about those years that our parents are going to be parents. How can we give you information that will change your family's future for the better. How can we give you information that you can use for your kids. And this is a show where we talk about these total life optimization strategies and we talk about the power of of the side hustle and how the side hustle is a full on pillar of fi. And if we believe that that's true if we achieve FI or if along the way we start building the side hustle and we start thinking about how can we incorporate our families into this when you have a side hustle it gives you a lot of flexibility. With starting to think how can you get your kids on this path earlier. And you know Brad is thinking about this how can I set my kids up knowing the power of time knowing the power of math. Is there a way that I can incorporate my kids needs into either my current businesses or is there maybe a business that I could start that I could bring them along side with me on so that they can start getting the stuff working sooner. And what's cool about what we've tried to do this whole time is share this learning curve with you. So we're not just doing this and keeping this information for ourselves. We're relying on experts that we know and we trust we're getting them to share to lower the barrier to entry to some of these more advanced concepts like how do you employ your kids or help your kids earn income at the age of 13. And then how do you move that income into some sort of Roth IRA because they're already at a zero percent tax bracket that has the ability to decrease your taxable income for this business that you've created. And at the same time fuel their Roth IRA and that will then leverage the power of time to crush this game for them. And I think the appealing thing for many people in the FI community is if you help your kids choose this path then the question about whether or not to leave them inheritance is it's a moot point but they've already chosen the path and they no longer need this inheritance that you may or may not leave. I think there's a lot of appeal there for people at all stages of FI and I'm excited that Brad is going to continue to learn the answers to this information and we're going to get to benefit from this and probably over the next five to 10 years. We're going to be able to implement some of these ideas and we're going to get to talk about it on the show. There's a lot of possibilities here and there's a lot of knowledge that a few people have figured out but it hasn't been distributed to the masses. And lowering that barrier to entry is what we're all about. The reason Gwen was on this show is because she latched onto these ideas and then she actually executed on these idea she actually did something and that's the one thing that Brad is always trying to push you know me personally and he's also trying to help our audience achieve is just take that first step whatever it is take that first step don't just passively absorb this information and it's entertaining on the 30 minutes that you're on the way to work and then you're done with that you've forgotten about it. Figure out what's the one thing you can take from each episode and then how can you implement this into your life to make your life better or easier in some small way. And so Gwen is a perfect example of what it looks like to find other people that inspire her and then implement those ideas. And then now she is inspiring to a completely different audience that is finding the concept to fly through her website through her blog and now through her podcast so she's able to share her story through all these different venues. It's cool to see. One other thing about Gwen that so impresses me is just her desire to be a part and help build a community. She has gone to multiple Chatauquas. She went to the camp moustache that we were at last year. She's actually going to be an organizer for a FI camp in the future. She is as involved in this community as you could ever hope for. And so it's really cool to see someone see how these ideas have benefited their life directly and then want to give back and help be a resource for other people. And I just find that entire story arc very compelling. So I have a pretty cool announcement to make. So we have brought up Steven and talked about Steven to you guys before and for those of you to whom that name is not familiar. Steven is the organizer of the camp down in Florida. And Steven has been aware for some time now that there is a very real desire to see some sort of organizational structure and some sort of platform that we can use to foster meet ups all around the world and certainly within the United States people are really looking for a way to connect with like minds. And Steven is willing to step up to the plate and he starting an organization called Camp fi which hopefully we will see spread all over the U.S. and hopefully around the world at some point. But he's taking time to see how he can help foster this. And he obviously has the experience from doing these camps in the past and he has the skill set. And I got to say to organize a program like this and to distribute this platform to multiple locations it does require a very specific skill set to bring in the right guests to create this environment that you not only want to go to but then once you've gone to it you want to tell all of your friends about it and you want to come back the next year and to provide a consistent experience from year to year. And we're super excited that we can partner with him on this project. And just to see where it goes. And I only bring this up now to tell you two things One that Gwinn has actually stepped forward to partner with Steven and she is going to be directing or hosting camps out of the Midwest and I believe she's going to be doing it out of Minnesota but she's actually looking for a location that we can use to have a camp FI in Minnesota for those of you that are in the Midwest that want to participate in an event like this and even more directly there is going to be a camp FI in Virginia. And Stephen is currently locking down the location and the place but for those of you that reached out to us that said that you were interested in participating in something like this. In your specific geographic location these are kind of pilots for that process. We're just looking to see how we can facilitate that. Be a part of it to get people to actually connect to like minds in their own community and in their own geographic region. I think it's going to be very cool. We're excited to see where it goes. But Steven actually said he's locking down the dates for April for a camp FI in Virginia so if that's something that appeals to you. There will certainly be more information all that coming to you both on the podcast but then also we talk about it almost on a daily basis in our Facebook group. And if you want to join the Facebook group just go to choose F-I dot com slash Facebook and we'll send you the invite to join that group and the conversation is continuing week round with over 3500 members. It is remarkable how quickly that group is growing and speaking to the Facebook group. This is the part of the show where we're we've been telling you for a while we're going to announce the other three finalists for the side hustle contest. And if you're asking yourself what is the side hustle contest. We featured the side hustle and give it its full episode back in episode 13 and we partnered with Alan Donegan to bring that to life. And I say we brought that to life that was 100 percent Alan. He is amazing and right now probably it's ending today. He's been out in Longmont Colorado with Mr. Money Mustache actually doing a pop up business school there helping entrepreneurs and future entrepreneurs turn their ideas into actual side hustle or business. This is just what he does. He goes all over the world now. It used to be more focused in Europe and the UK but now it's all over the world helping people just get off the couch and actually do something. Take action and start there side hustle. It's very cool to see and it's even cooler in our community the community where we talk about the side hustle on almost a daily basis as a lever that you can pull to free yourself from the hamster wheel. But even more than that Alan was unbelievably generous and he wanted to do something that he'd never done before and actually offer one on one coaching with a single individual for the next one to two years where he will help this person actually take their idea and walk it from the beginning stages where it's just been crafted to the very end of the product will help them across the entire journey and he'll do it both on and off the show so we'll be able to extract from this journey things that we can share with our audience. And so people submitted their ideas. The finalists were selected by a panel and then those finalists were offered up to our Facebook group to vote. And we because we had six finalists we split that up into two parts and we're going to feature the last three finalists for you today.
039R: Cruise Control How cool would it be to have a list of jobs like this that exists throughout the country and the world bred I suspect there are many many jobs that people can potentially earn six figures and not need a college degree or in this case you know need some combination of work experience and some college. I mean it would be really neat if the community could come together and catalog these things so that second generation fire or people in college now or even just people looking for a new job have a list of these amazing options that we all just kind of have in our own little silos. You might know some information that would be helpful to thousands of people. And you have no way of getting it out. Well now you do. We'd love you to send this to us. Post it on the Facebook group or send it to our e-mail feedback at Choose FI dot com. And you know we'd love to mention you mentioned your job center voicemail in whatever you want. I mean this is this is an important project for the community.
039R: Cruise Control Well speaking of growing up fi that's a pretty interesting transition because this week we talked to Fiery millennial and she just shared with us how she crushed this game in her teens and early 20s. And because of the decisions that she made up to this point she is at the place where she could retire by the age of 30 really if she wanted to and certainly by 35 and it painted a remarkable picture that maybe we'll get a chance to explore today. And this is one of those things we said that we wanted to contrast this with second generation FI because in my mind your kids are second generation FI they are going to grow up having seen mom and dad make these choices and be able to reclaim their time and spend it with them and mentor them through this process. I can't imagine that your kids are going to go pull a total 180 from the path you chose. I mean they aren't going to be on the exact same path but I'm sure that this path that you found will influence the life that they choose.
039R: Cruise Control I don't want to I don't want to belabor this but it does strike me that this show is kind of a chance for us to document our journey. But since we have families it's more than that to some degree it's documenting the the the progression of our kids right. And I think it'd be cool if the show continues for five or 10 years to see what those experiences actually look like when we talk about second generation fire and in our Facebook group we're able to share the stories of not only Brad and Jonathan but also the stories of our communities and how we're trying to implement these ideas into our kids lives. But it's cool that we can take just a couple of minutes each morning and talk about the practical implementation of that and actually what you're seeing on the ground. So my son is now four months old and Brad he had some progress as well. He rolled over yesterday.
039R: Cruise Control And while I could talk about my kid and your kid for the entire show. What I really wanted to focus on today was not so much second generation fi but this Millennial path to FI that we actually talked about on Monday. And in contrast with fiery millennial while Gwen didn't have her parents walking her through this process she had that light bulb moment on her own. She was young enough when she discovered this rabbit hole that time itself is now a lever that she's able to pull. And so we talk through a few the things that she did but just the fact that she had found multiple ways to hack college and she graduated college with actually 10 grand in the bank on top of that. She leveraged obvious networking tools like finding an internship to make sure that she had a great job waiting for when she got out of school. And just every step of the way she's made a choice that you want to share with maybe your younger siblings depending on where you are in life or maybe with your kids if you're a parent I mean because you can see how when you take all the stuff that we talked about and then you apply it to this younger generation just a few right choices early on are enough to completely break this game. I mean and frankly will be done at the latest by the time she's 35 and realistically could probably pull the trigger on FI by the time she's 30 and to me that's such a remarkable outcome for someone that did not grow up with a silver spoon that you almost just want to pause on it and just highlight those choices because anybody can achieve this stuff. It literally was not rocket science. It was just finding a few good ideas that other people had modeled and then just implementing those one at a time into your own life and then in her case the reason we're all able to benefit from it is that she was willing to share her story both on her website fiery millennials dotcom but also come on the podcast and share it and just right out the gate we appreciate her taking the time to do that.
040: Money Metagame All right. Well I was going to try to teach my girls how to play golf someday but I think they're definitely going to become caddies. That's that's a way better option that really. I mean we talk about second generation FI here all the time. I guarantee you someone listening to this is going to become an Evans scholar just because they heard you guys talking about it so that's so so cool. So you graduated college I think in the last four or five years and then you moved to Seattle. So you talked about buying this house. Seattle is not an inexpensive city. From what I know like. Talk me through that thought process to buy a house. Did you guys do that within months of living there within years and you said that it was before you found FI. So you know talk me through A the decision to buy it and then B like have you ever thought about selling it post-FI and all this stuff you talk through the housing decision in general. Sure.
040R: The Reset Button Yeah I think that's important not only for the millennials and second generation FIRE like we're always talking about but for everybody else people who aren't 26 and 27 and have done everything right. People who are in their 30s 40s 50s 60s even right. You can make so much progress in a short period of time. I mean just look at Noah and Becky they are the perfect example. They have gotten past F-you money they have I think somewhere in the vicinity of like 10 years of runway basically of their expenses and they've only been at this for four or five years and why can't you do that. I think that's the real message. This is not just for Millennials. This is for everybody. And even if you've made terrible calamitous mistakes financially well who cares what happened in the past. Just make moves today to make it better so I definitely wanted to start kind of my analysis there because it really is so important I don't want people tuning out when they hear oh here's some 26 year old guy and girl who have done everything right. Because a lot of people can't relate to that. But people can relate to the fact that alright. In four and five years respectively they have changed their entire lives and made it so that they're not even worried about leaving their extraordinarily safe and lucrative professions and a nice home they've built for themselves in Seattle. They're not worried about leaving that for a year giving up their jobs and traveling the country and potentially the world. That is a really important position of power and I think we can all gain something from that.
041: The High Cost of Living path to FI Paige I would say my advice to my younger self is make it automatic. Like for me the fact that it was kind of automated for me early on made a huge difference because I would not have done it by myself as disorganized as I was in my 20s. It was really helpful to just that minor little head start. And the gift of having that set up for me even though it was just a small amount made a huge difference. And I would recommend that for second generation financial independent people use force. Parents use force make the kid have the right kind of account put something in it. Show them how to put something in it if at all possible that will make a huge difference. Keep your burn rate low. This is stuff that I that I that I did that I was successful in doing and also figure out how to enjoy your life as it's unfolding and not worry too much about sacrificing for the future.
041: The High Cost of Living path to FI Paige Yeah and I would say for second generation fire you have to use force because I think that we're just naturally in our early 20s unable to think about these issues because that's the time where you're invincible. That's the time. If you're 22 you don't even want to think about turning 23 because the future is infinite and unknown. I remember I had a friend who was trying to talk to me in my 20s about saving up for retirement. And what are you doing for that and I just I couldn't hear what he was saying because it just was so far away from what my priorities were. So I think as far as the people are going to successfully second generation fire are going to be those whose parents made them do it who simply opened the account said this is what this account is. This is how you put money in it. This is why you put money in it. This is where you put the money. When you find that you have some extra money and make that process as seamless as just spending extra money would be and introduce them to kind of the game of that and seeing how that money can grow over time. Because otherwise I really believe that I in my 20s and I'm assuming other people in their 20s are just not, It's just not part of who you are as a young person worrying about what's going to happen 20 years from now.
041: The High Cost of Living path to FI Paige I love that. Getting that ball rolling. Your parents already lowered the bar of entry. So you just had to keep the thing going. Yeah the second half of that that really strikes me is that the question changes. Brad you know how when we talk to gas at some point we say what was that light bulb moment for you. That's clearly a first generation fire type question. I think it changes slightly when you're talking to second generation fire. Instead it becomes at what point in life did you truly understand appreciate that your parents had lowered the barrier of entry that they had lowered the friction to be able to get this ball rolling and you actually appreciated where all that time or all those birthday presents were those Christmas presents where all of those funds actually ended up and you said Wow. That is awesome. And it sounds like for Sam he was about 25 26 years old.
041: The High Cost of Living path to FI Paige I think that's really powerful and I think what you're describing. It's very interesting. We have this conversation about what it's going to look like for second generation fire. And the idea that we are going to try to start slowly creating a space for them to start exploring what this FI journey might look like at a younger age. I think it's very interesting that you can reflect back and see the impact that your parents putting that money aside for you had on your decision tree and on your journey.
041R: Extreme Ownership And practically speaking what this looks like Andrew shared with us on our Facebook page and he said this was his fire win the wife and I do a Monday night breakdown of the podcast tonight the kids were listening in and we had a nice talk about fully funding Roths how the math works over time and paying attention to our wants and needs. The four year old wanted to know about how good she was doing and we said she had a seven year headstart on her big sister toward fire. The 11 year old says Dad my investment jar is full. We need to go to the bank. She has two jars on our windowsill one says invest. The other says save for fun. The 11 year old gives me a squeeze and says Dad I love talking about money. Second generation fire is spreading my friends. That is the perfect family story. That's what forcing this looks like. It's this gentle approach where you're lowering the bar to entry. You're having these conversations early on and you're encouraging your kids in a way that is absolutely setting the path for their future self. And it's going to be a wonderful future. Alright Brad. So here's my challenge to you. My general question. Have you set up an investment account for your kids yet.
042: The Green Swan Why Start a Business When You Can Buy One Couldn't agree more. I think Brad and I both feel like we just missed that window and it's probably not ever going to happen for us at this point. But like I constantly talked to my younger siblings that are in this life stage where it might be feasible and I just think that is absolutely something that a second generation FI kid you know growing up in our community with the role models that we have this is a lever you should pull.
042: The Green Swan Why Start a Business When You Can Buy One That's a great question. I Are you guys like to talk about second generation fire. I may have been kind of an incidental second generation fire without really realizing it but my dad was always there as a role model for me. And he passed on a lot of the tips and tricks that we talk about in the community today. He house had when he got out of college and he did a lot of things that helped kind of prepare me for that. In high school I was you know with guidance and advice and everything from my parents I took advanced courses to get college credits. I took CLEP tests to kind of get some of those extra credits so I went into college with boy a semester at least of college credits already and then took the extra step with the summer courses to push me over the edge. So. So yeah I think it is all about the mindset and I may fall into the second generation fire for you.
042: The Green Swan Why Start a Business When You Can Buy One Yeah exactly and I couldn't have done this. You know it's tough for a lot of people just going in from scratch. I couldn't have done it without my brothers and my two younger brothers are the ones who are really running the day to day onsite in location etc and I can do it without without them I'm more or less just kind of. My contribution is more on the monetary and then just kind of on the side a little bit. So it is taking the side hustle putting it on steroids a little bit but not something that I can necessarily do by my at this stage still with an active W2 9:00 to 5:00 kind of busy job. But it's something that in the future like as you're saying as I reach FI as I maybe enter retirement become more and more involved and even something if you look down the road that second generation fire something that might my two kids can you know potentially even get into if you're looking really far down the road. I mean it could be their summer job it could be you know something that they grow into as well. So there's a lot to it. It can become a lot more. I think we're definitely just in the early stages. But it has the potential to be elaborate in many other different ways that everyone in the fi community really likes to talk about. And then even for myself it could be my part time gig in retirement you know working 10 to 20 hours or whatever I want.
043R: Mega Backdoor Roth It is definitely the second generation fire conversations that give me more excited than anything else. The more we talk about them in these little light bulb moments that you have with your daughters are just totally priceless and we got to capture them and then kind of build on them is really something that I latch on to both as a host but also as a listener.
047R: The Rule of 72 Yeah. Now you hit it on the head man. Yeah. It's all well and good for me to save money and I've been doing that for a while but man this was just a life changing thing for her and for me and yeah now the education continues. You know we've we've let that spark and now it's just a matter of like how do you introduce other things without it being overwhelming. Like she doesn't necessarily need to know about expense ratios. And I think Seonwoo was kind of joking with me. Like did I present the rule of 72 to her about like when. How many years it will double and that's all stuff that's coming. I just need to now figure out like what's an appropriate age and like when does she need to know that when would it be helpful. Like I don't want to overwhelm her certainly And so yeah I mean if anybody out there has had these talks with their kids I'd love to hear about. I love to hear how it went. And I think this is really valuable for the community at large. I mean Jonathan's constantly talking about second generation fire. So if you have tips on like how you talk to your own kids about it. Send us a voicemail. Just go to choose FI dot com. Find out right there in the home page there's a. Leave a voicemail button and just just tell us about it and we can play it on the show. Like I think these are the kind of things that are helpful and people want these skills. They want to know how to approach their kids because they want to talk to them about it. And and it's hard. You know I had a couple of people ask me for the Excel document that I made up and like that's something we can put in a future choose FI vault things like that like we can all share these resources because this is difficult stuff and it's it's helpful to have that community certainly.

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