Transcripts Including Tag: scholarship

Description: College hacking :: Scholarship

These are the transcripts that include the tag scholarship.

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005: Dave Ramsey Brad Barrett It does not. So you are at least as I understand it to you do you do open it up with a particular state. So we have Virginia 529s. But I think as long as they are they check the boxes on being an accredited college an eccentric center you can tap that money for whatever college they go to regardless of the state. But there are limitations and you know also what if my kids don't go to college. Right. Like that's something I've thought about like I don't want to I don't want to be the bozo who oversaved in this 529 and then life intervened and we are locked up with that money and have to pay some onerous penalty yeah you know that makes no sense or what if my kids get scholarships or something like that. So we've kind of split the difference and I'm not sure that this is the right answer quote unquote but it's something that we're reasonably comfortable with so we put a small amount of money in every month whatever it is a 100 bucks or $100 per girl I think per month which is a tiny amount in the scheme of things. But over 18 years it all it'll add up to something decent and it'll pay for a year or two of their college if need be. So that's something I'm comfortable with. I don't feel like saving multiples of that because I'm simply not comfortable with them.
013: The Unfair Advantages of Being a Teacher Millionaire Educator Yeah. I'm from Georgia and from a family of five and a basketball family so I always tell people back and back in those days when there was no internet or cable TVs. Everyone gravitated towards sports and it's a typical family back then and was pretty good student in high school. And so that resulted in a basketball scholarship and I went off to school and played D1 basketball and that was pretty much my identity for many years. I have to say yeah I kind of was not a good student undergrad so I tell everyone that just because it seems that a lot of people in the FIRE space are great students and engineers.
015: Justin Root of Good Jonathan Mendonsa I want to just quickly kind of sum this up. One of the things that you wrote in this article and this was essentially your bottom line you said you know what my kids are going to be able to attend college and somehow we're not going to pay for it and we're not going to come out of retirement to do it. And essentially for the best case scenario what I see is it's going to be about $24000. That's going be the cost of attendance for three years and $4000 of that you can get a cut cost on room and board miscellaneous expenses. Maybe they can live at home with us. That is $6500 average need based grant probably free money but maybe some loans $4000 merit based scholarships and grants $6000 and various jobs and internships and $3500 spending from our 529 accounts if this rosy Tennent picture plays out we'll have three years of spending. Thirty five hundred dollars a year. Times Three students. Our outlay will be $31000 in today's dollars and our kids may leave college with a small dose of those dangerous student loans. That's about $10000 less than we have in the 529 counts today. So we're we're very well prepared if this scenario occurs.
015: Justin Root of Good Justin - Root of Good Yes sure. So nobody pays sticker for college. Nobody is paying the sticker price. And it is sort of like you know when you walk into a car dealership or a mattress store, you're not going to end up walking out of there paying what their what their sticker price says. And there's financial aid even for you know moderately wealthy people. You're still going to get some financial aid a lot of places. Some private schools are worth applying to just to see you know you may get tons of money to go to a private school. I think public schools usually are. You know if you if you aren't going to get a lot of financial aid public schools offer a great value proposition. But I think just knowing that you know you're not going to be paying the full tuition most likely you're going to get some kind of help somewhere. There's a good chance your kid might qualify for some scholarships. There's tons of them out there that there's very very little competition for these scholarships. And know this is the this is the $1000 Scottish heritage competition or you know the $2000 Asian Pacific Islander scholarship competition. You write a one page essay you submit it there may not be a lot of people writing these essays and you may be you know 20 people may be vying for 10 of these 1000 scholarships. Pretty good odds of getting a thousand dollars for very little effort. So those are worth going after. And then the university itself.
015: Justin Root of Good Justin - Root of Good You know my my 15 year old knowledge of those was you go to the financial aid office and get a book and look through it. I'm sure today there's just a ton of sites out there where you can search and I've seen them I just can't come up off my head. But I'm sure there's Internet sites out there. You just find places that they list all these scholarships and then you know if your parents worked in finance or scholarships if you're if you work for a local credit union or bank at a local credit union they have scholarships. Your local city may ask our ships your high school may have some. Your county may have some that the universities themselves have just tons and tons of scholarships. Make sure your name is in the hat. Where are those scholarships. Talk to people in your in your department. You know if you're in the engineering department civil engineering mechanical engineering whatever participate in those professional societies. That's the way I got several scholarships was the the Transportation Engineering Society at my college. They had you know that was one of those they had they had five scholarships and only four people applied to them. So I got two scholarships one year to $2000 just for fill out a form. And it's surprising how much money is out there and how little people actually care to go after it. But but it's out there especially in the engineering the engineering tech fields. Seems like there's floating in money.
015: Justin Root of Good Justin - Root of Good Yeah. So that's that's kind of the bottom line is you know we're talking about very very minimal outlays in this best case scenario which you know I can see it playing out it's not. It's not a stretch to think that it could happen and we've already got the money saved in 529 plans. So I think college is still very doable. As a parent with kids as you're going into early retirement I think you have to have some kind of general plan for it. But I think when you get to specifics I mean it really depends on your kid and how much they're going to be able to make on their own and help you know in terms of scholarships and financial aid and where do they end up in terms of the 80 percent or 99 percent percentile that's really going to determine how much free money they get out there that's merit based. And and also to some extent you know what kind of college they would end up at.
016: House Hacking with Coach Carson Chad "Coach Carson" Carson Yeah I think that will be a good segue and house hacking too because you know when I first started it was I think just by necessity is like all right. I'm not producing any income here I have no guaranteed salary. And I think a lot of college students to feel like that compulsion this particularly because you have debt and I didn't have any debt because I got a scholarship to play football in college so that's kind of an aside. I was very fortunate in that situation. But the fact that you know I said I have to be super lean here to be an entrepreneur,I think those two things go hand-in-hand. That to be an entrepreneur is you're taking you're taking a risk you're not guaranteed a success and you know going for financial independence it's very similar to being an entrepreneur. You know there's no guarantees in life. You have to take some risks here. At the same time entrepreneurs are also very risk averse. Very ironic. So you know I knew I was taking a risk and there was no guarantee I was going to make money next month. I had to hustle hustle hustle. But the thing you can control is how much is going out the door. And I knew that I just had a kind of an intuition for that for whatever reason. And so my business partner and I just talked about it hey we're going to start a business I'm going to back. And I started thinking housing is always the first thing you think about because that's such a big part of your budget. You had a spare bedroom I noticed and there just a bunch of boxes stacked up and I didn't even realize there was a bed until I moved my boxes in there just like this old single bed like Springs sticking out of it you know. And so I say hey I sleep on that bed for the first few months of while we're starting this business, and He is like I don't care you can whatever clean it up. And so that worked out and I think it lasted about 10 or 11 months and so we finally flipped a couple of houses and I had a little bit of money and I decided to kind of venture off. But the house hacking was the next you know it was soon after that it went right after that was the next step because. I like that not having a house housing payment. It was pretty cool thing.
017R: Roth Conversion Ladder Jonathan Mendonsa Chad Carson man Chad Carson wrote our 50th review. So Chad thank you so much. And he basically said I am a guest and a regular listener and this is one that I recommend to other people. So thank you Chad I really appreciate you putting that on there and guys. But that was a big deal not just because of the comment but also because we told you from day one that when we get 50 written reviews that's where we implement the voice mail feature and that's cool because this is a community driven show and the Friday roundup is a community driven episode it's by the fire community for the fire community. So now that we have the voice mail feature we're adding it and it's live right now you can go do it if you leave us a voicemail feedback that adds value. It's going to get played and we're going to talk about it and we're going to get to actually use your input on the show. It's just going to add an incredible level of depth. Other people have voicemail features but they don't get used the same way that we are planning on using it. You guys are an integral part of our show and we have been wanting to use this feature since literally the first day. So I'm incredibly excited about the depth that that feature is going to add to this thing that we as a community are building together very very powerful stuff. OK so let's go ahead and dig into this week's episode we had Brandon from the mad Fientist. And it was kind of an origin story so it was a mentality it was a thought process. And in that episode for the first time we introduced the Roth conversion ladder. Now many of you are already familiar with this idea because maybe you found the mad Fientist a long time ago. But for those of you that heard about the Roth conversion ladder for the first time that is going to be the focus of this episode and so we're going to take some time to show you how that works. But before we do that I want to go and take a few minutes and just get some general insights from the episode because I know for Brad for you this was an episode you were very excited to do and you really wanted to go behind the scenes with Mad Fientist and find just kind of pull out some of those human elements.
017R: Roth Conversion Ladder Jonathan Mendonsa Alright Brad so one of my favorite things to do when we get a new tool or technique is make sure we can give a sample scenario and actually visualize what that would actually look like. I think that's really powerful. It's not necessarily that everybody is going to have that same story but if they can visualize how it worked for one person and what their scenario was they can figure out what they can do to get closer to it or what part of that they can use in their own and their own life. So for the sake of unpacking the Roth conversion ladder let's just take the scenario where we have this 20 year old guy. Now imagine that he basically figured out the college hacking thing. Now how did he do all that or part of it did you get scholarship doesn't really matter. But he graduated at the age of 20 and he's married and has a kid at this point and he's working in a career that that makes $60000 a year say engineering something or something like that. Now this guy is on a 20 year plan and he's making 60000 each year he maxes out his 401k which is $18000. They have a entry level middle class lifestyle they're able to do it for about $30000 a year. They do pay some taxes on that there's a little bit of difference left in there and he's on this track for 20 years. And so for each year he's that 401k $18000 a year it's making an 8 percent rate of return. So at the end of 20 years he's at the age of 40 he's going to have eight hundred eighty nine thousand dollars in his 401k. So Brad My question to you is with this guy what does using the Roth conversion ladder What does that actually look like given that specific scenario.
018: Go Curry Cracker Capital Gains Losses Roth Conversion Go Curry Cracker Yeah it's it's tought with you know. I think at the time I didn't really have any financial knowledge whatsoever. Like we grew up fairly poor and I just knew that hey college was a way out. But I did it. And probably the worst way possible I went when we went to a private school and and you know with with relatively high tuition just because they offered me like a partial scholarship and they were really supportive in the application process and everything. But I probably would have you know later my brother and my two youngest brothers actually had the option of taking community college classes while they were in high school. And so they were able to graduate with both their high school diploma and an associate's degree.
021: The Pillars of FI Brad Barrett You know as far as college hacking goes you know this is something we're going to talk about certainly in great detail over the next year or years because it is such a big line item in people's budgets and you know we had an article on dual enrollment where you can start earning college credits and in high school and really you know cut the number of years that you have to to actually go to a four year college. There are ways to you know go do something unconventional You know not go to the best college you can get into but you know go places where you can get scholarships or even better go to a community college for two years and then you know make sure again you know the rules. You know we always come back to these pillars. Right which is what we're talking about here which is knowing the rules and maximizing that right. So if if you know for certain that your child can go to X community college you know around the corner from you and can take all these courses and have them transferred to a top tier public university in your state. Well I mean that's going to save you essentially two years worth of college. I mean because community college is extraordinarily expensive. Then we have seonwoo lee coming out with his article on hacking the FAFSA which we're going to detail in depth here. I mean there are ways especially for people in the FI community who eventually who once they're in fire don't quote unquote have a lot of income. Right we have a lot of assets but not a huge amount of incoming income. Well there are ways that we that you can hack college aid and potentially get any college for free or pretty close to free. So this is this is a real big item. And that's why we included it in the pillars of FI.
021R: May Case Study Brad Barrett Yeah I mean I think I think you're absolutely right Paul is is miles ahead of most people with every aspect of his financial plan. So so that's that's huge. I mean I gleaned from his comment that it sounds like his daughter and the family have discussed college in depth at least what I'm understanding because you know he said something to the effect of at least what my daughter's college plans are now and I don't know any more about that. Obviously I didn't follow up with Paul. That's that's what this is all about. You know $43000. I think Jonathan I might might potentially disagree on this like. To me that doesn't sound like enough to fully fund college for most people. But again we are in the FI community and we are not most people. So maybe Paul and his daughter have something planned out ala going after scholarships or doing even community college which could save a whole boatload of money. Maybe she has aspirations to go to a more expensive school and she's going to have student loan debt of her own. I don't anticipate that being the case. But you know I just simply don't know. You know my own mind says $43000. That's Not enough to cover room and board at a state school for four years. But with intelligent planning and maybe his daughter's going to live at home you know then that's very doable I think you know I think Jonathan's probably going to jump in here and say you know if you college hack which is what we what we're trying to teach people and intend to do over the next couple of years then you can do it very easily for 43. So you know throw it over to him instead of keep babbling.
021R: May Case Study Jonathan Mendonsa Brad thanks just totally stealing my thunder. OK. Yeah I mean that's exactly how I feel. The problem is I don't have to figure it out yet. I'm trying to learn it along with you guys. I know that there are people that have gotten four year degrees in today's dollars for less than 43 grand. There's probably hundreds of thousands of examples of people that have figured something out. The question is how can you build a framework that can be applied to if not the masses certainly the fi community. And I think that is where I'm putting my energies and my efforts. That's those are the ideas that I'm trying to collect and just build something new. Tell a story with it. I don't want to spend more than 43 K on college. I think that's crazy. I think I think it's absolutely crazy at the same time. I know that most people do it or are willing to take out debt to do it. So what would it actually look like to say you know this is a reasonable amount of money to set aside and we're going to make it go farther by being smarter about it. I don't necessarily have that answer right now but I'm committing myself to figuring that out over the next five years and presenting it one piece at a time and I think we've certainly touched on dual enrollment. I think that's a possibility. I'm sure we can find someone that could tell us how to game out scholarships. We need to have that conversation. We need to talk about community college which is another piece of dual enrollment but often that's what you're actually looking at you're talking about going to high school while going to community college. Part of it is just planning room and board. You know that's a nonstarter if you're talking about doing at least the first couple of years at a community college you should certainly be able to do that while you're at home the landscape is rapidly changing. And I think to spend you know a hundred thousand dollars on student loans and come out making a year it is absolutely ludicrous. Does everybody need to go to college. Yeah probably you know probably at this point. But certainly if we apply our minds to this as a community we can come up with a better way of doing this going forward. Is this the answer right now. No. Can we start the conversation please please we should have already started it. Let's start working on that.
025R: Friday Roundup Case Study Part 4 Jonathan Mendonsa And I think I even have an extra piece to add to this. Looking back now when I was at the point where I was in school and it was time to apply for scholarships I think it was already too late. At that point because I hadn't done anything so suddenly I decided oh I need to start looking at scholarships. But at that point it is too late. Right you need to have documented. And again it goes back to our conversation with career hacking and ESI. It is all about accomplishments and so if you know that if you have someone model for you and you know I have this three year window going into the time where I need to start applying for these scholarships I need to have some accomplishments I need to have something that I can talk about I need to have something that I can write about. And you start setting up this three year track before you start applying for them. With that construct in mind this problem gets a lot easier and I don't know. I think there is really something there. And one of the ways that I've found that helps me to organize my thoughts is through a blog and whatever that looks like for you getting in the habit of thinking about your life in terms of accomplishments albeit small ones. Right. I volunteer at the library. I did this I did that. I was able to contribute to my community in these different ways not that you do it all on day one or you do it on one weekend you just do what ESI said you essentially apply the networking principles to your high school years and to your formative years and your parent helps you set that up because this is a second generation fire conversation. They know what it needs to look like. So they tee you up for those activities you're guaranteed to win this game. So next guys we're going to go ahead take a couple of minutes and we're going to talk about Paul's case study something you guys are really enjoying this. And I know that because you've asked me when is the next part coming. You guys are stalling. And yeah and maybe a little bit of something there but we're excited to go ahead and go through Paul's Excel sheet now and talk a little bit about a few of his expenses and how we can view those in terms of his working career now and what those might be after his working career is over. So Brad I have Paul's Excel sheet pulled up in front of me and you got it in front of you as well.
025R: Friday Roundup Case Study Part 4 Brad Barrett Yeah I love that. And I'm definitely going to get my kids on this. And you know whatever. Seven or eight years when my oldest daughter is getting ready to go to school and I think back similar to you Jonathan I think back to when I was in high school and even college like like Bryce's and I was just so stupid and lazy just because I didn't know this stuff and I could've at the time I was in high school probably qualified for full tuition merit scholarships. at Many many colleges but it just didn't cross my mind as stupid as that sounds like. I was so focused on Ivy League schools and things like that and I did wind up getting accepted some of those places. But but man like when you look back on life and you say like who the heck cares about that stuff. If I could have gotten a full merit scholarship somewhere. How could you not do that. And I don't even look into it. I mean how criminal is that. And the I mean this this is huge. And like you said it's it's looking at that problem differently. So I hope that people have the drive that Bryce does. And I hope my kids do and I hope I can I can help facilitate that.
025R: Friday Roundup Case Study Part 4 Jonathan Mendonsa Thank you so much for sending your thoughts. That is extremely value added to be honest with you. I've always been skeptical of scholarships on a mass scale and that is my own weaknesses and my own inabilities to be able to visualize that actually working. And I realize now as I'm approaching you know I'm as I'm in my 30s and I'm approaching everything from this optimized path if I just had a single person be able to model that for me if I just understood what the process looked like if I just had someone like ESI show me that you do just one little thing one step at a time. How achievable that really is. And I saw a news article that was recently shared on Twitter from stacking Benjamins. And it was basically this one girl had qualified for over $7 million in student loans scholarships $7 million from 48 different universities and had her pick. And it's just what if you had someone modeled that you knew what the process was and you don't do all the applications at once you just do one little thing at a time one step at a time. What if there was a systematic process that you could use and instead of you even getting a summer job you coach your child through that process and they work on that one bit at a time. Over the course of the summer. And instead of making one or $2000 or $3000 they make from work working at the pool over the summer they earn $7 million in scholarships. That's the value of looking at this problem just a little bit differently. And that's the value of what Bryce is contributing to this conversation.
025R: Friday Roundup Case Study Part 4 Bryce - (voicemail contributor) Hey Brian. Jonathan this is Bryce Imhoff and I wanted to share a few strategies that I used to hack college. I graduated just a little over two weeks ago from the University of Arkansas and SCC member school with zero debt and a total of forty seven thousand two hundred nine dollars in scholarships and federal grants. I continue to hear you guys talking about trying to figure out how to hack college and I think I might have some valuable feedback for you on this subject. My tuition was roughly $32000 or $4000 a semester and my parents paid for three out of my 8 semester in school. I decided to get married during Christmas break my sophomore year which required us to completely separate from my wife and I's parents financial support. I then went on to receive $41209 of scholarships and aid in my last five semesters of school. You guys have talked a lot about hacking the FAFSA on the show. And I think there's tremendous value there. But one of the most overlooked sources of aid in universities around the country is current students scholarships through your university specific college and major My university offered the current student scholarship that required you to submit a resume write one or two short essays on some broad topic they assigned and get a few recommendations from an advisor or professor. I received a total of twenty thousand six hundred nineteen dollars in merit scholarships after my sophomore year of college just from applying in a broad general pool of scholarships. I submitted one application for the university wide current student scholarship one for Fulbright college. The liberal arts college on campus and one for the political science department. My junior year I only received $2174 and merit scholarships. But I hacked the FAFSA to make up the difference. My senior year I went through the exact same process of scholarship applications and I received seventeen thousand $445 and merit scholarships over half of the entire cost of my degree in one round of applications. The key to successfully getting current student scholarships is a really competitive GPA and student leadership involvement on campus. I had a really high GPA and I worked a few different jobs on campus that put me in everyday contact with professors and advisors. Each job paid well above minimum wage and there are countless jobs like this on campus. If you really want to get them. Another advantage is that a very small percentage of people apply for current students scholarships and even less apply for departmental scholarships. If you can keep your grades up and stay disciplined each year you set yourself apart a little more and become more competitive especially within your major slash Department which explains my jump in scholarships from my junior to senior year. The second part of how I hacked college was the FAFSA because I was married our parents income was no longer required on our FAFSA's which allowed me to qualify for basically all federal grants available to me. Why merit scholarships were combined with my federal grant aid. I was being paid ten thousand dollars cash per semester after all tuition expenses had been paid. My senior year. So in summary take school seriously and make good grades. Merit scholarships are based on merit. Get an on campus job during the year last summer. That puts you in contact with influential people. If possible go to a public university. I paid $32000 for tuition for four years versus roughly 50 to 60 thousand for a private university apply for every student scholarship again. There is much less competition when applying for scholarships in college versus applying from high school and your ACT or SAT scores don't matter. And lastly and I think this is most important have some skin in the game. My parents were high income earners and I was happy to let them pay for school without any effort on my end. I honestly had a little bit of an entitlement mindset and staring at potentially $20000 in student loans. Lit a fire under me to go make it happen. All right guys thanks again for all hard work on the Web site podcasts and the podcast I hope this provides some value.
083: Second Generation FI Cody Berman Cody Berman Definitely. I think optimization is key. And so getting those templates and getting those foundations laid for any aspect of life really helps you in the long run. And you don't have to waste time on silly little things like rewriting an entire essay for that might be the same exact question that you were asked in the last scholarship you applied for or rewriting an entire cover letter for a firm that's almost identical to other firms that you're applying to.
083: Second Generation FI Cody Berman Brad Barrett Cody I know based on a conversation I had with your mom made you finished at or near the top of your high school class so presumably you had some options when it came to colleges. I'm curious if you also took the same kind of fine mentality or scholarship mentality to your actual ultimate decision for college. How did scholarships and how did the overall cost of college come into your ultimate decision?
083: Second Generation FI Cody Berman Cody Berman So I guess I can break this down into the three main portals where I've found my scholarships. I think the first and easiest to get scholarships is through any local scholarships either offered through your state or through your community like maybe in your town or in your city. And those scholarships are a lot more likely to give you the scholarship money if you are a part of that commonwealth or that city or that town. another place to look is scholi (sp?) which is an app on your phone that is really good you enter in your criteria you enter in your GPA you enter in your major you enter into a lot of other information about yourself. And it basically just suggests scholarships that you should apply to based on the criteria you entered. And the third best place that I found scholarships is actually scholarships.com. It's that easy. That was just from a simple google search and that turned out to be a really good hit for me. So those are three places where I would start for people looking for scholarships. But you can definitely just go on google and type in scholarships forX. Whether it's here nationality, or your major, or a life circumstance that you've been through.
083: Second Generation FI Cody Berman Jonathan Mendonsa So we're going to talk about the fact that you've started a site Helsel slash business at this point. But I think the reason I wanted to bring that in is because as I'm sure you're aware as a business owner one of the things you start to do is A/B test things so you test maybe different designs or different marketing strategies. But like taking those same principles that you use for your business and moving it all the way back to when you're applying for scholarships is there anything that you can draw from to talk about this. Pareto's principle this 80 20 like most of your results that you found you got came from when you really focused on this specific technique was it hey once I really developed the story that I tell myself about myself that really helped me get these scholarships or the GPA once I really nailed the GPA that really helped. Or the extracurriculars. Is there anything in particular there that someone that's starting from scratch could benefit from.
083: Second Generation FI Cody Berman Jonathan Mendonsa Well let's talk about scholarships a little more. This has always been a pain point for me just because I always felt like this. I don't know is probably a limiting belief but I didn't even know where to start. And I didn't feel I was one of these people that didn't feel like it was going to have any sort of impact. So you say OK I want to do a scholarship a day practically speaking actionable tip like where does that start. Does it start with Google. Hey find the top 10 scholarships. Does it start with going to your high school adviser like at a granular level what does it look like to do a scholarship a day. Yes.
083: Second Generation FI Cody Berman Cody Berman Yeah definitely. So basically what I did. I guess you could consider it a form of cheating quote unquote was made kind of templates for different scholarships so there'd be like a scholarship for what's your best accomplishment so far or what are your life goals and I'd have five templates and then just kind of tweak them depending on the foundation or whether I need to change a few things in it. And that actually worked really well for me and that was the same thing I did with my cover letters when I was applying to 30 plus firms for internships. And so using like a kind of a base template to start. I think that's one of the best places to start. And then you can just tailor it to whatever scholarship you're applying to or whatever job you're applying to in regards to cover letters.
083: Second Generation FI Cody Berman Cody Berman And in addition to the AP and clep exams scholarships are huge and there are so many scholarships out there. People think oh I'm never going to get the scholarships I shouldn't even bother applying. But if you just apply to say one scholarship a day which is not that hard if you just put a reminder in your phone. I know you guys like to use to do lists put it in your to do list just apply to one scholarship a day. Soon you apply to 50 scholarships. You're bound to get even five scholarships. There are a thousand or a few hundred dollars apiece. Those go really far and just knocking out that student debt you're knocking out loans that you don't have to pay down the road pay interest on. And so if you can get those scholarships early and just mass-apply you can put yourself in a really advantageous position.
083: Second Generation FI Cody Berman Jonathan Mendonsa I'm so excited to ask that question that's exactly the sort of life hacks that you're looking for like when you're talking about starting the scholarship process you can't start from scratch every single time. You know we're talking about this efficiency of time. And if every single time you go to do this scholarship which is you're right it likely it's going to look very similar. Not every single one will look similar to each other but they do kind of tend to self-collect in these different groups if you can put a system in place to start churning these things out. Suddenly your rate of return just goes through the roof. And like you said you know maybe you're only landing one out of every five one out of every 10. But if it's more or less copy and paste with some small tweaks at the margins. Now you're looking at earning what would be an hourly rate you know way more than you could ever possibly hope to earn working a summer job.

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